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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Is there a transition serial range that is known when the Government Models and National Match pistols using two-tone mags were switched over to all blue mags in the years just before WWII? And also what is the serial range when the plain bottom mags had the Colt .45 Auto added to them?

 

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I believe the two-tone commercial magazines were used up to about serial number C199000, with the caliber marking added to the base around C170000. That is a great looking National Match GM.
 

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Is there a transition serial range that is known when the Government Models and National Match pistols using two-tone mags were switched over to all blue mags in the years just before WWII? And also what is the serial range when the plain bottom mags had the Colt .45 Auto added to them?
CJS57,

Interesting pistol! (And, interesting question(s).?)

Do you know if C 196174 is lettered? (If so, can you show it?) It would be nice to know when it was assembled, and when and where it shipped!

On your magazine(s) question(s),---do you have Clawson's Government Model book? If so, he explains/covers it on page 206 and 207 (2nd edition). (Most likely, both of the mags you show will go with C 196174.?)

Best Regards,
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks! I am looking for more precise dating on the magazines. I do have the books. No letter on C196174 National Match, need to get one. It is very late production for having no Swartz safety.
About the magazine bottom markings. Clawson says they were added at about C170,xxx. To the contrary, Sheldon says they were added to Govt's at the same time as when the Super 38's came out in 1929. So that would be as early as about C155,xxx for Govt's to have mag bottom markings?
NIB original guns would go a long way to narrowing the serial and date range a little closer.
 

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Thanks! I am looking for more precise dating on the magazines. I do have the books. No letter on C196174 National Match, need to get one. It is very late production for having no Swartz safety.
About the magazine bottom markings. Clawson says they were added at about C170,xxx. To the contrary, Sheldon says they were added to Govt's at the same time as when the Super 38's came out in 1929. So that would be as early as about C155,xxx for Govt's to have mag bottom markings?
NIB original guns would go a long way to narrowing the serial and date range a little closer.
CJS57,

For the magazines, you need to locate a few dozen NIB original pistols from about 1927-28 up to about 1941? (Will check the neighborhood.)

The letter on C196174 would be interesting,---particularly it's assembly date and destination, due to NO Swartz. Apparently, pistols (GM and NM) in the C196XXX range are not common.? Know of only one other, C1969XX,---it has the Swartz.

Best Regards,

P.S. Anyone know of any other pistols in the C196XXX range?
 

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It's interesting that a NM this late doesn't have the NSD. This seems to confirm that not all late GM/NM pistols were equipted with the Swartz safety. It's also late for fixed sights and may letter as a special feature. Mine is C197248 with the NSD. It was made in April 1938 and shipped in April of 1939. I wonder if there are any late NM pistols with the cut outs for the NSD but without the parts installed?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I have C197373 National Match Swartz, was removed for King Super Target conversion in 1940. Also have C197332 National Match with Swartz. And C189493 National Match with Swartz. Also Gov't Model (Argentine Navy) C204664 with Swartz intact.
 

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Thanks! I am looking for more precise dating on the magazines.
CJS57,

Some book-ends, on the mags.?

A minty pistol near C145000, has the Two-Tone non-script mag. And, a minty NM (fixed with Swartz) near C202000, has the Full-Blue with script. (As most know, the full-blue mags have a temper line.) Also, IIRC, all the later (serial #s above C202000) pistols examined,---1941 and the rare 1942 pistols had the late full-blue with script mags.

(Hope some members will help fill in the gap!??)

Best Regards,
 

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Thanks! I am looking for more precise dating on the magazines.
CJS57,

Any additional info on the Magazines?

Even with LNIB GM pistols, there is no guarantee that they will have their original mags (after 75 to 90 years),---case-in-point, located a minty 1929 GM in the C157XXX range. Presumably, it has it's original box, direction sheet, special instructions, brush, hang tag, light brown tissue paper, and sales receipt,---dated at the end of the Roaring 20s, November 1929! The only thing missing,---THE MAGAZINE!

Anyway, did get to examine a few additional high condition pistols between 1929 and 1942. Two in the C200XXX, one each in the C199XXX and C198XXX, two in the C197XXX, (that other one in the C196XXX), one each in the C194XXX, C186XXX, and C160XXX.

All the pistols examined from C194XXX up through C200XXX (and those covered in post #8 above),---had the full blue with script mag. C186XXX, with original box, has a two-tone with script mag. And C160XXX, with original box, has a two-tone no script base mag. (Could be COLT had a supply of these mags around when they started to stamp the base??)

Most likely, there are a few members that can help fill-in around C160XXX, C186XXX, and C194XXX!??

Best Regards,
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Thanks Stan! I think C186xxx is meaningful and I believe (without proof) that this is very near a not very exact dividing line from two tone script to all blue script. Seems like I saw or heard of a Colt internal memo letter that referred to the then "new" all blue magazines approved and authorized across all model lines in about 1938 or 1939?
 
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