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Colt Model 1917 questions

3116 Views 30 Replies 8 Participants Last post by  Oyeboten
Other than Googling "Colt Model 1917" and doing Wikipedia searches, is there a legitimate and accurate source of information for someone who only has a vague knowledge of these pistols. I have started looking in earnest but find too many loosely described pistols, especially on Gunbroker and other gun sites. So, can anyone point in the right direction for learning about these pistols?

So far, I have this:

Colt Model 1917 Army New Service Model 45 ACP Double Action Revolver - Profile of Colt Model 1917 Army New Service Model 45 ACP Double Action Revolver
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1917_revolver
[URL="http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=536"]http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=536

[/URL]And, of course the list goes on. Gunbroker is an interesting exercise when one looks at the "completed" items to look at history. Lots of variation in asking prices, description, and condition.

Any and all advice is appreciated.

grumpa
21 - 31 of 31 Posts
It's likely that you are reading the Army service number on the butt. Yours would be service number 76,800 which is about halfway through the production run. That particular revolver was delivered to the Government during the week of June 15, 1918 as part of a weekly delivery of 2700 revolvers. There were about 155,000 Colt M1917's produced from October, 1917 through mid-February, 1919.

Buck
Yours looks to have already been cleaned up someplace down the line - the blue on WWI-era M1917s is flatter and purposely so, so as to be dull in the field, and for a faster production time because a fine commercial polishing wasn't needed.

The grips are commercial - military-issue grips don't feature the medallion and are oil-finished walnut.

Good, close-up photos taken in natural light will be quite helpful - take them of every marking that you can find.
...and take the close-up and general images outside if possible in indirect Sunshine...that gives the truest images.
G
It's likely that you are reading the Army service number on the butt. Yours would be service number 76,800 which is about halfway through the production run. That particular revolver was delivered to the Government during the week of June 15, 1918 as part of a weekly delivery of 2700 revolvers. There were about 155,000 Colt M1917's produced from October, 1917 through mid-February, 1919.

Buck
Top Country Shooter Ralph Wolford gave the information on my colt. According to him it was # 76 made out of that series of 800. I don't know who is correct. As I said--I bought it cause I liked it. It's that simple. It also appears that Colt themselves wanted my revolver (before it was MINE) for 100 days to verify it's history due to the medallion. So I may submit it to Colt and see what happens. Maybe the best way to go is to let Colt research it. I will take some more photos though.
I have no idea who Ralph Wofford is, nor his qualifications concerning M1917s, but Haggis is correct. Colt M1917s had two numbers on the butt, a serial number and a "service" number. I guess the Army just wanted them marked that way. From an earlier posting, Colt M1917 serial numbers ran from about 150,000 to about 305,000. Army service numbers started at #1 and there were at least 154,802 guns built. The Service numbers were often stamped in 2 lines which is very likely what you have - 76 over 800. Your SN would then probably be around 227,000. And original WWI-era military grips were smooth wood without medallions.
Interesting story - but that's all it is - a story, and if Colt had 'really' wanted it for 100 days, well, that just adds spice to the tale, because clear photos would be the answer to that request.

Sounds more like the seller just really wanted to sell that revolver.

It's been refinished and been given new grips in its past - a not-uncommon thing, since the wartime finish on Colts was nowhere near as attractive as the commercial-quality one that Smith & Wesson maintained on their Model 1917s throughout the war, and folks like shiny objects.

The Service Number is the one located on the butt - usually seen in two lines, in order to accommodate the butt swivel.
Top Country Shooter Ralph Wolford gave the information on my colt. According to him it was # 76 made out of that series of 800. I don't know who is correct.

There was no such thing as any 76 out of 800 Series/run...and no such thing as any 'series'.

Small Press Books printed in a small number sometimes have such a series or run, and they will be numbered "This copy is No. 76 out of 800" for example, and be signed by the Author right above or below the enumeration disclosure.

I know of no instance where this has ever been encountered with any old Colts or other Hand Guns back when, nor was it part of how the Military did things when Ordering Guns.

Nor is the Number on the Butt the Serial Number.

The Number on the Butt is the Army Inventory Number, and once it got over 999, it went to two lines.

The Serial Number is inside the Crane Knuckle area.

As I said--I bought it cause I liked it. It's that simple. It also appears that Colt themselves wanted my revolver (before it was MINE) for 100 days to verify it's history due to the medallion. So I may submit it to Colt and see what happens. Maybe the best way to go is to let Colt research it. I will take some more photos though.
The Stocks on this Revolver mean nothing.

Someone added them at some point, and they may even be sanded/re-finished WWI plain Walnut Stocks, to which someone merely added some much later 'Medallions'.

The Medallions do not date to the era of the Revolver, they are newer.

No Colt m1917 came with Medallions in the Stocks - these were Military Revolvers and the Military required plain oiled Walnut Stocks.

There is nothing about this Revolver which would be of any interest to Colt, in any way whatever...even if it was minty and kept in a Box since new.

It is a nice example of the m1917, and it may even be in the original finish if 'mellowed', which someone modified the Stocks on by adding later Medallions, or which someone added the stocks it has on it now anyway.


No one familiar with the Colt New Service or Colt m1917 Revolvers would require 100 days to understand it.

Three seconds is more than enough time to understand it perfectly, for anyone familiar and informed, even with merely some decent images, as we have above.

Better images would help decide if this is the original finish or if it is an older re-finish which sought to emulate the original finish.

It is a nice enough, maybe even very nice ( better images would help us! ) mellow maybe original finish, wrong Stocks Colt m1917.

We all love them!

Most of us have a one or even a few in similar condition.

Sometimes these can even be our favorite old Hiking or Trail or Camping Guns.

It is anything more than that? Anything unusual?

No...

But then too, it is plenty and it is fine just being what it is!

These are great Revolvers!
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G
There was no such thing as any 76 out of 800 Series/run...and no such thing as any 'series'.

Small Press Books printed in a small number sometimes have such a series or run, and they will be numbered "This copy is No. 76 out of 800" for example, and be signed by the Author right above or below the enumeration disclosure.

I know of no instance where this has ever been encountered with any old Colts or other Hand Guns back when, nor was it part of how the Military did things when Ordering Guns.

Nor is the Number on the Butt the Serial Number.

The Number on the Butt is the Army Inventory Number, and once it got over 999, it went to two lines.

The Serial Number is inside the Crane Knuckle area.



The Stocks on this Revolver mean nothing.

Someone added them at some point, and they may even be sanded/re-finished WWI plain Walnut Stocks, to which someone merely added some much later 'Medallions'.

The Medallions do not date to the era of the Revolver, they are newer.

No Colt m1917 came with Medallions in the Stocks - these were Military Revolvers and the Military required plain oiled Walnut Stocks.

There is nothing about this Revolver which would be of any interest to Colt, in any way whatever...even if it was minty and kept in a Box since new.

It is a re-finished m1917, which someone modified the Stocks on, or which someone added the stocks it has on it now anyway.


No one familiar with the Colt New Service or Colt m1917 Revolvers would require 100 days to understand it.

Three seconds is more than enough time to understand it perfectly, for anyone familiar and informed, even with merely some decent images, as we have above.


It is a nice enough old re-finished, wrong Stocks Colt m1917.

We all love them!

Most of us have a few in similar condition.

Sometimes these can even be our favorite old Hiking or Trail or Camping Guns.

It is anything more than that?

No...


I appreciate all the input. I'm not trying to embellish anything or make anything out to be anything other than what it is. The story about submitting it to Colt per their request came AFTER my purchase of the gun, not before. I just liked it and bought it, nothing more, nothing less. After I got it home I decided to find out more about it so I could decide if I wanted to restore it and keep it or what exactly I wanted to do with it, which took me here.
I would never take my colt out as an old hiking or camping gun. To me it is a part of history and I would not want to risk losing something as meaningful to me as that. As for the medallion---I have no idea. It was there when I bought it in the condition it is in now. I have only had it in my possession for 3 days. The photos I took, I took at the shop where it was purchased.
My inquiry was not meant to initiate a debate of any kind or insult anyone in any way. I just wanted to relay what I knew, what I was told and go from there.
Thank you to everyone for your input. I think I will bow out of the conversation now. Best wishes.
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G
Here is the conversation between myself and the shop owner where I purchased the colt. This conversation occurred online AFTER my purchase. The information you see on the tag on the gun was allegedly written or provided by the Wolford guy.



SHOP OWNER
Well the values came in from several different people though stating the gun was worth $1000 and up depending on condition and Colt themselves requested teh gun be sent to them for research because of the gold medallion in it but I didnt comply with their request because I had to hire an attorney for paperwork and insure the item plus leave it with Colt for 100 days.
ME
It is ancient history now as I own it now. It is never worth anything more than someone is willing to pay. But I did not buy it with the intention of reselling it.
Candice wHO WAS THE MAN WHO GAVE YOU THE INFORMATION ON THE COLT that he wrote on the tag

SHOP OWNER




Top Country Shooter Ralph Wolford





Thats cool! Where did you find that online service? I could pass it along to the customers on other pieces.



candice







It appears that this mans seems to disagree with Mr. Wolford


It was a conversation after I made the purchase. Please be nicer to the next novice who comes along wanting to learn. I found a piece I liked so I bought it, nobody twisted my arm to buy it and nobody told me any stories to get me to buy it, I just liked it all on my own. I wasn't trying to say my colt was some special prize more rare than a snipe. I was simply relaying the information I had.
I think you could have been a bit more understanding to my situation. I do hope you will be more hospitable to the next novice who happens along wanting to know more about their new acquisition.
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Understood...you wanted the claims of the seller to be reviewed.

And the claims of the seller have been reviewed.

Just giving you the straight info on your Revolver.

Shop Owner was 'blowing smoke'.

Better images would allow a more sure determination of whether the finish is original ( I suspect it is original, but the images are not close or clear or taken from 90 degrees and do not show Barrel Text details, Butt Army info, and so on, ) or not.

The Stocks shown on the Revolver are irrelevant in this example, and merely represent a 'Medallion' contrivance someone had added to a worn/sanded pair of m1917 Stocks, or, which someone contrived however so.

Fairly high condition correct Stocks would be valued at about $150.00 or so at this point in time.

So one would in effect, deduct $150.00 or so, from whatever the price of the Revolver was, to take that into account.

If you want to know the straight info on your Revolver, this is it!

From what I can see in the images, this may well be a fairly high condition, original finish, New Service m1917...which is only detracted by the incorrect/modified/contrived Stocks.

But, again, better images would aid in arriving at a sure evaluation of the finish.
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It was a conversation after I made the purchase. Please be nicer to the next novice who comes along wanting to learn. I found a piece I liked so I bought it, nobody twisted my arm to buy it and nobody told me any stories to get me to buy it, I just liked it all on my own. I wasn't trying to say my colt was some special prize more rare than a snipe. I was simply relaying the information I had.
I think you could have been a bit more understanding to my situation. I do hope you will be more hospitable to the next novice who happens along wanting to know more about their new acquisition.
I am sorry..!

I did not mean to seem not-nice!

I am just home from a 2000 mile 3-1/2 day Road Trip and I am still a little fried.


I took you to present the claims made by the Shop Owner, for review and analysis, since they had figured in to your curiosity about what is or is not the truth about this Revolver.

I have not suggested that you supported the claims ( even if I did notice you seem reluctant to give them up! and or to resolve them based on various info being given already ) - I merely wished to put the claims into a proper perspective succinctly, and to explain to you 'why' the claims are false or confused, by providing you with the correct explanations for the details in question so you could have some added basis for understanding your Revolver, and for understanding how the claims made no sense in light of the correct information.

I did not mean to seem harsh, sorry...just meant to be 'firm' or clear.
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