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Discussion Starter #1
Colt O.P. \"E\" frame!?

Say what? I've always thought the OP/OMM/OMT/Marshall(?)/Python/.357/Trooper (Non Marks)/OMS were, "I," as in, "I went shopping," frames. Now, on the Numrich page, I see about a Colt Official Police and then, a Colt OP "E," frame gun. What's this? The schematics ALL look like Pythons to me. Illumination? I am but a stranger in a strange land!
 

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Re: Colt O.P. \"E\" frame!?

In the Colt Dealer Catalog (1969) the Official Police is listed as Model E-1.

The OMM is listed as Model I-1.

The Police Python is listed as Model I-3.

The Trooper is listed as Model I-4.

The first of the J frames , the Official Police Mark III and the Trooper Mark III's had just been introduced.

Bob
 

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Re: Colt O.P. \"E\" frame!?

Well, thank you, Sir! That'll sure help. You know, I used to get a Colt catalogue every year ... and a Gun Digest. Of course, I didn't SAVE them or anything silly like that! Thanks again.
 

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Re: Colt O.P. \"E\" frame!?

In the long ago, Colt called their frames different things.
The Official Police size frame was known as "The 41" frame, because it was derived from an early .41 caliber Colt revolver.

Sometime before WWII the factory designation was changed to the "E" frame.

In the early 1950's. Colt did a slight redesign of the frame, and it became known as the "I" frame.

Other than a few small changes, the "E&I" frame guns use very similar, if not the same parts.

So, if it's an "E" frame gun, it was made before the 50's. An "I" frame gun is early 50's on.

As a good rule of thumb: If the gun has the early cylinder retention stud and screw assembly on the frame, it's an "E" frame.
If it has the large cap screw cylinder retention, it's an "I" frame.

[This message has been edited by dfariswheel (edited 12-06-2003).]
 

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Re: Colt O.P. \"E\" frame!?

OK. Thanks, dfarris. I'll print out bfoster's and your information for reference. Say, speaking of cylinder retention screws ... some time back a writer asked about taking the cylinder out of Colt for proper cleaning - remember? You said it was like a Smith - and I said I was told NOT to do it? Well, HOW do you do it, again? My .357 has a large screw on the right side of the frame - that's right, as your holding the gun in firing position, and smaller one just above the trigger, nea the edge of the sideplate, on the left side. My OP has the one on the left, same as the .357 but on the right, a smaller flat head screw partially against a covered-over, "thingamajig," that looks like a cap over a screw? You sure things won't jump out at me and get lost in the carpet? I used to take the cylinder out of my #36 and #66 always for cleaning but I heeded the warning of my range officer and NEVER touched the inerds of a Colt! Say - can a bumblehead like me take the side plate off without destroying life as we know it? Over?
 

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Re: Colt O.P. \"E\" frame!?

Oh, boy! All right ... I'll give it a try ... but not tonight. Mamma's fixin' a nice T-bone with some of those great home-made French Fries and I got a huge bottle of decent chianti. Guns? Right now, I want LOVE, not WAR! Thanks for the information very much. I'll play with them on my next bench session - after the two lamps get new switches. Ha! Merry Christmas, my Friend! <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dfariswheel:
Colt used two retention systems: Pre-1950's and post-50's.

BOTH systems are on the RIGHT side of the gun, opposite the side plate.

The old system looks like an odd "screw and pin" figure-8 like assembly.

The "pin" is actually a stud that holds the cylinder in place. The screw is a flanged device that interlocks with the stud.

When the screw is turned out it pulls the stud up with it, releasing the cylinder.

These can be a problem if the assembly is "glued" in place by old lube, OR if somebody damaged the thin skirt or flange on the screw.
As in all gun work, use a proper fitting screwdriver, and put some penetrating fluid on any assemblies that are resistant.

The second Colt type appears to be a large screw. This is actually a hollow cap.
Under the cap is a spring and hollow plunger.

The plunger actually retains the cylinder.
Simply unscrew and remove the cap, pull the spring and plunger out, and the cylinder is released.

ALL post-1950 Colt's use this system, including the Python/Official Police/357 etc, and the Trooper Mark III/King Cobra guns.

Again, ordinary disassembly, including removing side plates, is WELL covered in Jerry Kuhnhausen's book, "The Colt Double Action Revolvers: A Shop Manual, Vol One"
Vol Two covers the later Trooper Mark III/King Cobra.

Ordinary complete disassembly is very possible to most people with fair hand skills, by following the books.
Attempting to re-fit or replace Colt DA parts, however is best left to a pistolsmith.

S&W also used two systems.

The first, is nothing but a fitted side plate screw. The front side plate screw is hand fitted at the factory to retain the cylinder. For this reason, ALWAYS keep these older system's front screw carefully separated from the other screws. The lower rear side plate screw is EXACTLY the same type screw, but since the front screw is adjusted at the factory, the screws shouldn't be switched.

The second S&W system is a variation on the Colt second type.
These are recognized by the front screw being a larger headed screw than any other side plate screw.
This screw also is a spring-loaded plunger system like Colt's, but the plunger assembly is both smaller than Colt's, AND permanently assembled together at the factory.
So, don't try to remove the plunger and spring from the cap screw.

S&W revolvers can also be disassembled by the user with Kuhnhausen's manual on the S&W revolvers.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
 

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Re: Colt O.P. \"E\" frame!?

Colt used two retention systems: Pre-1950's and post-50's.

BOTH systems are on the RIGHT side of the gun, opposite the side plate.

The old system looks like an odd "screw and pin" figure-8 like assembly.

The "pin" is actually a stud that holds the cylinder in place. The screw is a flanged device that interlocks with the stud.

When the screw is turned out it pulls the stud up with it, releasing the cylinder.

These can be a problem if the assembly is "glued" in place by old lube, OR if somebody damaged the thin skirt or flange on the screw.
As in all gun work, use a proper fitting screwdriver, and put some penetrating fluid on any assemblies that are resistant.

The second Colt type appears to be a large screw. This is actually a hollow cap.
Under the cap is a spring and hollow plunger.

The plunger actually retains the cylinder.
Simply unscrew and remove the cap, pull the spring and plunger out, and the cylinder is released.

ALL post-1950 Colt's use this system, including the Python/Official Police/357 etc, and the Trooper Mark III/King Cobra guns.

Again, ordinary disassembly, including removing side plates, is WELL covered in Jerry Kuhnhausen's book, "The Colt Double Action Revolvers: A Shop Manual, Vol One"
Vol Two covers the later Trooper Mark III/King Cobra.

Ordinary complete disassembly is very possible to most people with fair hand skills, by following the books.
Attempting to re-fit or replace Colt DA parts, however is best left to a pistolsmith.

S&W also used two systems.

The first, is nothing but a fitted side plate screw. The front side plate screw is hand fitted at the factory to retain the cylinder. For this reason, ALWAYS keep these older system's front screw carefully separated from the other screws. The lower rear side plate screw is EXACTLY the same type screw, but since the front screw is adjusted at the factory, the screws shouldn't be switched.

The second S&W system is a variation on the Colt second type.
These are recognized by the front screw being a larger headed screw than any other side plate screw.
This screw also is a spring-loaded plunger system like Colt's, but the plunger assembly is both smaller than Colt's, AND permanently assembled together at the factory.
So, don't try to remove the plunger and spring from the cap screw.

S&W revolvers can also be disassembled by the user with Kuhnhausen's manual on the S&W revolvers.
 
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