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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Sequence of problems:
1) After about 6 months of modest use the timing started going out in SA a little on a few of the chambers. Figured this to be normal wear over time (especially if not done by Colt factory)

2) bolt started riding back up one of the ramps. Due to worn cylinder notches. (this was about 2 years ago)

3) tonight the gun started throwing by on one of the notches I assume to due to worn cylinder.

Sequence to Self-Fix:

1) I took the gun completely apart internally. Taking even the bolt and bolt spring out and bent the bolt tail out slightly. Put gun back together. No change in problems (goal was to eliminate throw by)

2) Took the gun apart again bent the bolt tail out all the way a little too much to where it couldn't even be lifted to clear the cylinder notches.

2) took the gun back apart and bent the bolt in a little out a little to adjust.

3) put the gun back together and the bolt is now dropping right at the beginning of the cylinder ramp.


Result: ALL THREE OF THE ABOVE DESCRIBED PROBLEMS SEEM TO BE GONE. The SA timing is good, bolt is no longer riding up the ramp on that worn notch and gun is not throwing by.


My question: WHAT DID I DO RIGHT? (or have I done something wrong? Is this only a temporary fix?) It's the same bolt head, same cylinder, same hand. What changed that caused everything to seem to set right? Does adjusting bolt drop affect that much of the guns function?


(NOTE: this gun has not had abuse and has seen very little use since it was retimed at Cylinder & Slide 6 years ago) (THE CYLINDER NOTCHES ARE ALREADY A LITTLE WORN. Bolt would ride up one of the notches. THE GUNSMITH AT C&S, Bill Laughridge WAS A LITTLE SKEPTICAL about whether it could be fixed due to worn cylinder notches)

(NOTE: C&S had set it to drop right on the cylinder just before or right as it entered the ramp. Bolt cylinder was reset set by me after getting it back so that it would drop about 2/3 of the way down the ramp right in front of the notch to cut down on drag feel. Bolt would still ride up ramp of one of the notches. I replaced the bolt spring with a longer one I had ordered from Brownells. The gun seemed to function fine from there on until the problems above began to surface over time. )
 

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It is desired that the bolt's supposed to drop in the middle third of the grooves/leads before the notch. Maybe because one of your notches is worn (I assume you mean that the one edge of the notch is not sharp but chamfered some, from the bolt pressing against the one side during firing), the momentum of cocking hard allows the bolt to travel over the damaged chamfered notch edge. I have seen this on notches where the bolt engagement is not to spec and too shallow. I believe when the gun fires,the shallow bolt head engagement results in increased stress on the diminished surface area of the notch. I could see that enough hammering on that miniscule area could peen the edge some.Also just the bolt getting slammed against the side of the notch by someone ramming the hammer back or shooting real fast and hard in double action could cause that especially with shallow bolt engagement.

Maybe because of your worn notch , you must let the bolt drop early like you did so harder cocking doesn't cause the throwby. Anyway Sounds like you have accomplished a fix for the immediate problem.. Maybe as the bolt head wears down it will start to throwby again but maybe that wont be for a long time.

I wouldn't cock it real fast.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I don't slam or abuse the gun. I squeeze the entire gun and speed has followed since I started shooting in this way. Cocking is not a hard CLACK but a simple quick click.

Odd thought that it wasn't throwing by before but suddenly it was.
 

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I was thinking whoever had it BEfORE you that caused the worn notch, may have been hard on it. Is the bolt engagement to spec,or is it real shallow?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I think it's to spec. The bolt is new and has been replaced. Cylinder & Slide redid the entire gun as much as they could
 

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The Kuhn manual says bolt engagement in the notch should be about 1/32" .You could check that dimension just to make sure its ok. Yours may be fine but I had a DS that was mint cosmetically, but it would throwby in double action. I noticed that the bolt barely engaged the notch,and every notch edge had a little peen mark. I had to raise the bolt head and tweek the bolt drop some. Now it works fine.


I had another DS that had the right bolt engagement but the bolt dropped just a little late(not much). Anyway it would intermittently throwby in double action. It was very frustrating because it was so intermittent. I monkeyed around with the bolt drop over and over and I lost track how many times I took it apart and put it back together again until FINally, I got the bolt to drop so that it did not throwby. That was several yaers ago,and it still hasn't had a problem but I don't shoot it that often now. I dry fired tested it over and over after the last bolt tail bend and I was so relieved that I finally could not get it to throwby. I think I just got lucky on that one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
A thought: is it possible for whatever reason I wasn't tightening the bolt screw all the way each time I would put back together up until this point? allowing it to rock a little bit back and forth freely because it wasn't tight enough. dragging on the cylinder, rocking back and forth with in the notch allowing it to wiggle out up the ramp, bouncing off the notch within the notches.
 

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Doug, That certainly could affect it.
I will say that on that last DS with the frustrating,intermittent problem,that I tried over and over to tweek the bolt to the right place, I still don't know why it finally got to working correctly. I ASSUME that the last bolt tip bend somehow did the trick but the changes were so slight as (thousanths of an inch here and there) that it seems nothing much is changing.
I guess the the test is --If it works, you got it right.
Maybe dfariswheel will come along and offer his opinion as to your situation and questions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
That's the only thing I can think of. It almost looks too good to be true the way it functions flawlessly now after inadvertently fixed all of the problems after one problem popped up out of nowhere
 

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The Bolt and it's Timing are dependent on the Rebound Lever and it's movement.

The Rebound Lever is raised by a little shelf on the Hand.

The Hand, is raised by the movement of the Trigger.


Granted, a Bent Bolt or one which was not right to begin with, that could benefit from being 'bent' a little', might solve a Bolt timing Problem.

Initial description, sounds like the Bolt was not coming 'up' to lock the Cylinder at Battery.

This could have been from foreign matter in the mechanism, or if the Rebound Lever-Hand fit was somehow off or if the rebound Lever had slipped off the Hand's small 'shelf' aspect.

None of these parts function in isolation.

If the Cylinder was passing Battery, it does sound as if something was preventing the Bolt from coming up.

When the Rebound Lever has lifted it's end of the Bolt, dropping the Bolt on it's other end, in order to allow the Cylinder to rotate...the Bolt is supposed to slip off of a small projecting side aspect of the Rebound Lever.

If for some reason a Bolt is too long on that end, or, does not 'slip off' as it is meant to, the other end of the Bolt will not snap 'up' in order to index or lock the Cylinder at Battery for that Chamber to be aligned.

A Bolt bent sideways a little, bent 'in' toward the left side of the Revolver or toward the Sideplate, could hang up on the Rebound Lever, and then allow the Cylinder to pass Battery/Alignment, without the Bolt popping 'up' to index or lock it there.
 
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