[Csimm]

Hi everyone

I just inherited this Colt from my grandfather. I have been doing some research on it to try to prove that it is in fact authentic, and I came across this chat form. I am curious if you guys think I should purchase a Kopec letter to prove it. There are no military inspection stamps and it’s a 44-40 so I’m assuming its a civilian model.

Here is what I know about it:
Caliber: 44-40 WCF
Barrel length: 4 3/4”
Serial number: 86051 or 6051
3 line patented date
44CF stamped on left front side of trigger guard.
Small H stamped below rear sight under the hammer.
No markings on the cylinder.
4333 serial# on ejector cover
It is not the original grips.


I think the first digit of the serial number was removed on the trigger guard and handle, and partially removed on the frame to make it look like a Custer gun serial number. I think the bluing was also redone, the finish is a different color under the ejector cover.

Any information or advice would be much appreciated

Thanks

 

[victorio1sw]

Hi everyone

I just inherited this Colt from my grandfather. I have been doing some research on it to try to prove that it is in fact authentic, and I came across this chat form. I am curious if you guys think I should purchase a Kopec letter to prove it. There are no military inspection stamps and it’s a 44-40 so I’m assuming its a civilian model.

Here is what I know about it:
Caliber: 44-40 WCF
Barrel length: 4 3/4”
Serial number: 86051 or 6051
3 line patented date
44CF stamped on left front side of trigger guard.
Small H stamped below rear sight under the hammer.
No markings on the cylinder.
4333 serial# on ejector cover
It is not the original grips.


I think the first digit of the serial number was removed on the trigger guard and handle, and partially removed on the frame to make it look like a Custer gun serial number. I think the bluing was also redone, the finish is a different color under the ejector cover.

Any information or advice would be much appreciated

Thanks


View attachment 744686 View attachment 744687 View attachment 744688 View attachment 744689 View attachment 744690 View attachment 744691 View attachment 744692

First, I would not send that one to Kopec, since it was not military issue. The military bought 45 Colt SAA's.

The 1st digit of the SN was simply removed while polishing prior to rebluing.

The 4333 is a gate assembly number, which should match another number on the bottom of frame (under trigger guard).

The barrel has been cut (likely from 7-1/2") to 4-3/4", as evidenced by the one line Hartford address.

If the cylinder has no number, then likely the barrel (under ejector housing) also has no number? Is that correct?

 

[saintclair]

Gun has been heavily buffed and reblued. I do like the way the re-finisher kept nice square edges instead of rounding them off like most people do. The address on top of the barrel has been poorly re-cut. Gun in that condition is probably worth about $1200-1500.

 

[hearsedriver]

Made in 1883. I agree with the others. Heavily buffed and refinished. Do not try to shoot modern ammo through it. Black powder only.

 

[Rick]

Kopec only authenticates US guns.
Black powder only.
A lot has happened to this gun since it was manufactured. Most of it not good. Value is in the fact that your grandfather owned it. Not much collector value. Enjoy gramps's gun.

 

[cloverleaf]

Custer was dead for 7 years when you gun was made, but it does look like the 8 was obscured with purpose.
There are many heavily modified SAA's.
Yours is one of them

 

[Csimm]

First, I would not send that one to Kopec, since it was not military issue. The military bought 45 Colt SAA's.

The 1st digit of the SN was simply removed while polishing prior to rebluing.

The 4333 is a gate assembly number, which should match another number on the bottom of frame (under trigger guard).

The barrel has been cut (likely from 7-1/2") to 4-3/4", as evidenced by the one line Hartford address.

If the cylinder has no number, then likely the barrel (under ejector housing) also has no number? Is that correct?

Gate assembly number? That is interesting I will have to take it apart and confirm that. No I have been a little timid to disassemble the gun yet. I want to make sure I do I right. I will look under the ejector housing and trigger and get back to you

 

[Csimm]

Gun has been heavily buffed and reblued. I do like the way the re-finisher kept nice square edges instead of rounding them off like most people do. The address on top of the barrel has been poorly re-cut. Gun in that condition is probably worth about $1200-1500.

What makes you think it has been recut? Is the font different or something?

 

[Csimm]

Made in 1883. I agree with the others. Heavily buffed and refinished. Do not try to shoot modern ammo through it. Black powder only.

Thanks for confirming the year, 1883 was when I thought it was manufactured as well. I shot it once maybe 8 years ago with black powder ammo that we reloaded, after the first shot or two the front sight fell off. So we decided not to shoot it anymore.

 

[Csimm]

Custer was dead for 7 years when you gun was made, but it does look like the 8 was obscured with purpose.
There are many heavily modified SAA's.
Yours is one of them

I agree there are many negative alterations on my gun, but do you still think it is an authentic Colt pistol?

 

[victorio1sw]

Gun has been heavily buffed and reblued. I do like the way the re-finisher kept nice square edges instead of rounding them off like most people do. The address on top of the barrel has been poorly re-cut. Gun in that condition is probably worth about $1200-1500.

That barrel address has been crudely recut! I didn't pay attention to that, because most rebluers would never take the time to recut an address.

 

[hearsedriver]

I agree there are many negative alterations on my gun, but do you still think it is an authentic Colt pistol?

Yes

 

[Agarbers]

What makes you think it has been recut? Is the font different or something?

Compare these two barrels. Notice how the lettering is straight and the same height on the top example.

Notice how the lettering on your barrel is not straight or the same height. The top example looks mechanically done. The bottom example looks hand-cut.

 

[Agarbers]

I believe the barrel should have had an acid-etched panel with the words Frontier Six Shooter. Unfortunately, that has been buffed away and covered with bluing.
This is what it would have looked like:

Here is a great thread to study and compare your example with:

Subtle changes in the Colt Single Action Army, a photo essay

While at the Julia auction preview yesterday I saw this amazing display which is going to be auctioned off. So I took pictures of every detail to share here. This is a great visual tool to help identify variations of the Colt Single Action Army. Enjoy!

www.coltforum.com

 

[victorio1sw]

Compare these two barrels. Notice how the lettering is straight and the same height on the top example.

View attachment 744704

Notice how the lettering on your barrel is not straight or the same height. The top example looks mechanically done. The bottom example looks hand-cut.

View attachment 744705

You are right! The Top of every crossed T and F is slanted downward. At least they were consistent?

 

[LeverActionBill]

That barrel address was done
o-n-e
l-e-t-t-e-r
a-t
a
t-i-m-e.

 

[Ejjeff]

Csimm, welcome to the colt forum. You certainly brought your questions about grandfathers revolver to the right place, I too am new to these amazing pieces of workmanship and history. Every time someone like yourself gets information about their saa I learn something. Do you know how long your grandfather owned it? I hope you enjoy it for a long time.

 

[victorio1sw]

I agree there are many negative alterations on my gun, but do you still think it is an authentic Colt pistol?

Thanks for posting your questions along with great detailed pictures of your grandfather's Colt SAA. We all learn from these pictures and discussions, whether the guns are totally original or reworked.

 

[Agarbers]

You are right! The Top or every crossed T and F is slanted downward. At least they were consistent?

I give them an A for effort.

 

[Csimm]

Compare these two barrels. Notice how the lettering is straight and the same height on the top example.

View attachment 744704

Notice how the lettering on your barrel is not straight or the same height. The top example looks mechanically done. The bottom example looks hand-cut.

View attachment 744705

Oh wow your right. Thank you for the comparison