Colt Forum banner
  • Have you found any great Black Friday deal!? Share them in this post HERE for a chance to win a $50 Amazon Gift Card!
1 - 20 of 37 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I am in the process of purchasing my first .22-caliber, and was hoping for a little expert advice (yes, that might mean mean you...)

I currently own a 9mm, but as ammo is so expensive (particularly right now) someone suggested that I get a cheaper range gun that I can shoot cheaper ammo (.22) through when I am at the range.

Their suggestion caused me to hesitate, because while I can see the logic, I thought it would always be better to practice at the range with the gun that you purchased in case (God forbid) you should ever need to defend yourself.

I have asked a few people, and received different opinions.

One person insisted that I train with what I would defend myself with in the event that I ever needed to and forget the idea of a training gun, but recommended a .22 that is similar to a real 1911 if I just wanted something fun to take to the range and just run a lot of ammo through without breaking the bank. So, I looked at the Colt Gold Cup Trophy .22. (I know, it is made my Walther, but has the Colt name...apparently Colt has outsourced since the very beginning: "One thing that many people don’t realize...is that the demand for them (1911's) was so high during the war, that Colt contracted out to other companies to help keep production numbers up. Some very well-known companies helped, to include Remington Rand, Ithaca, Springfield Armory, many foreign companies, and even the Singer sewing machine company.) Best 1911 Pistols For the Money [2020] - Pew Pew Tactical

Then, several other people saw what I was doing and said no, stick with something closer to my 9mm specifically for the sake of cheaper training, like the M&P .22 compact (as well as several other suggestions).

I filtered out all of the other suggestions to these two guns, and cannot decide.

Is the theory that a "training gun" is really not worth it accurate, because it is still a different gun in the end? Or can a training gun genuinely help you to develop good muscle memory? Or, is the Colt .22 really just more fun and since a training gun is pointless(?), I should get the .22 and enjoy having a different gun to shoot cheap ammo from when shooting at the range?

This is where I thought that perhaps some readers out there with more experience than me might have some good thoughts to help me make a decision?

Thank you so much!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,572 Posts
A training gun is just for that...training. It helps build and maintain skills. It is probably best to get a .22 version of the centerfire pistol but the skills are transferable. Probably the biggest difference is in the recoil between the two...that has to be dealt with when going back to the centerfire gun.

And...what's wrong with buying another gun?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,734 Posts
I joke that it's my "native North Carolina ability" for my expert marksmanship. But really, it's that I got a Daisy BB gun when I was young, and shot it a lot. Then when I was about 9 I got a .22 rifle and shot it a lot. That is what makes me a good shot.....lots and lots of practice, early on. It makes no difference what you shoot, it's about breath and trigger control, stance, etc. Today, I can shoot a gun I haven't shot in 20 years in a match, and do better than a lot of people that "practice every week". So it could also be that you had to practice a lot when young, like learning a second language, it's more difficult in middle age.

Marksmanship is a martial art, or even a skill like golf or juggling. Samurai practice with wooden swords, a cheap club will let you practice your swing at a golf ball. It doesn't matter the type of equipment, you're perfecting your hand-eye coordination. It's also meant to be fun, not just mindlessly doing combat action drills at high speed shooting a target at arms reach away. Try a .22, ANY .22, even an old revolver or rifle. It WILL make you a better shot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,197 Posts
Welcome to the Forum from Canada!
For the cost and the fun factor, you can't beat the Walther/Colt 1911-.22's. I bought this when they first came out in 2012. Now have in excess of 20K rounds through it. This target was shot a couple of weeks ago at 20 yards, so they are reasonably accurate. If one of these tickle your fancy, feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

Shooting sport Recreation Electronics Shooting Precision sports
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,621 Posts
There is a lot of wisdom in training/practicing with what you carry. There is also a lot of wisdom in practicing the basic skills with a similar model in .22. A quality .22 will emphasize mistakes in trigger control, follow-through, sight alignment, etc. Those skills transfer to any gun and caliber.
Practice with any good quality 22 but its also a good idea to fire your 9mm regularly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,074 Posts
Marksmanship is Marksmanship - it's a developed skill that's transferable, so long as the basics are taught and followed.

In that light - sight pictures throughout are pretty equal, so get a Ruger Auto with adjustable sights, a couple of bricks of .22LR, and head to the range with a stack of targets.

Better yet - take the NRA course on Basic Pistol Marksmanship to instill the lessons.

Once you figure out your .22, you can move on to centerfire.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thank you to everyone for your suggestions!

It sounds as though the general consensus is that it is a good idea to get a .22, and that regardless of the .22 that I get - if it is closer to my 9mm or something like the Colt that is very different - it will help me with my overall shooting. Is that correct?

Either way, it sounds like they are both good gun choices?

Thank you again to all!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,354 Posts
I'll add this FWIW. Perfect practice is what makes a better shooter not just rounds down range. Advantages to practicing with both your 9mm and/or a 22 to mimic it. And nothing wrong with buying a new gun.

But if you really want to be a better shooter, 15 minutes of serious dry fire practice with you dedicated carry gun will do wonders for your skill set of being able to hit the target. That 15 minutes is worth way more as a way to better your skill set than 100 rounds a day of mediocre practice from your carry gun or a new .22.

Any trigger time is good. But it is the serious, and quality trigger time that really makes a difference. It doesn't take live ammo to drastically improve your marksmanship skills.

Any full size single action auto, like a 1911, is going to be way, way easier to shoot accurately than any other trigger system, and harder yet in a smaller gun.

If you want to get the best practice for your carry gun get a duplicate of that gun in 22. If you want to better your shooting skills get a 1911 style gun but the 1911 doesn't demand as much of the shooter that a striker fired or dbl action 9mm auto will.

Shooting is degradable skill. That is an undisputed fact. You can be a master class shooter for the majority of your life time, lay off a few years and come back shooting like chit. You might have the basic muscle memory but no one is immune to physical skill degrading without use. Certainly easier for a Master class shooter to come back from an extended lay off and get better quickly. One of the ways to more easily do that is by dry firing, then live ammo, then dry firing then live ammo and repeat.

The other issue is perfect practice. So how do you make the box of 9mm go farther at the range? As it is only perfect practice that makes you a better shooter not rounds down range.

How about 20 round dry fire at the target before you pop a cap? Then a mag of real ammo. Then another 10 to 20 rounds of dry fire? Then another mag of live ammo. Are you tired yet? 10 more dry and another mag. Are you shooting better or worse? When it is obvious you are shooting worse or/and you are tired STOP. Take a short break. Then shoot half a dozen or so perfectly. Then stop for the day and come back next time for even a better practice.

Those last "bad" rounds down range when you are tired and shooting poorly at the end of a shooting session are what keep many shooters from advancing their own skill set.

When you know what makes a better shooter you find that you don't need a different gun or cheap ammo...just better practice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,780 Posts
If you look at the video of the church shooting in Texas you notice that the church security member is using a two hand hold and I bet he isn't concentrating on his sight picture or trigger release and doesn't have one eye squinted. By looking over his pistol he instantly knows where it is pointed and aligned with the target.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,354 Posts
JohnnyP said:
If you look at the video of the church shooting in Texas you notice that the church security member is using a two hand hold.....
Jack Wilson, the shooter you describe, is also the President of "On Target Firearms Training Academy" est. in 1995 and was a former reserve Deputy Sheriff. He's had enough training to acquire a good sight picture and a surprise break on the trigger under stress. Modern pistol techniques teach shooting with both eyes open. It is clear from the church video that Wilson took a very deliberate sight picture at eye level prior to the one and fatal shot he delivered.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,531 Posts
I carry a full size S&W M&P 9mm and practiced/trained with it for years. Lately, though, the arthritis in my wrists and thumbs has been getting worse and the recoil was causing me a lot of pain and I started to develop a flinch. I started training with my S&W M&P full size .22 and the arthritis pain is not so bad. The two guns are very similar and I put dot sights on each one for my old eyes. About once a month, I do a training session with the 9, so I don't lose my touch with it. Working out very well, so far.
- Bruce in Ohio
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,074 Posts
I'll throw in something that few think about...

Get a 'good' air gun.

Air rifles and pistols offer a weird benefit - they teach 'follow-through' - like pitching a baseball, or throwing a dart - in each case, follow-through helps with that form of accuracy, and air-powered weapons do the same thing.

Plus - you don't have to bend over to pick up your brass...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,354 Posts
Dogface's suggestion is a good one. The reason an air gun teaches follow through is the amount of time the pellet is in the barrel compared to a gun powder, powered cartridge. It is called "dwell time". The pellet takes a lot more time to leave the barrel with air power, so your sights have to stay in alignment longer to make a good hit with an air gun that a cartridge gun.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,059 Posts
An alternative to the Colt/Walther. 22 is the ATI/GSG1911-22.
Bought mine a month ago at Rural King for $229 and I have burned two bricks thru it thoroughly enjoying every session.
I'm used to shooting my .45 at paper but found that with the .22 I can no longer see where I'm hitting unless I approach the targets so I went to three steel plates. Now I remember how fun it is to shoot multiple targets and I'm getting back to better/quicker target acquisition and rapid fire. Lots of fun.
Firearm Gun Trigger Revolver Gun accessory
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,621 Posts
You want to try follow through to the extreme, try a flintlock.
A few years ago we hosted a live-fire turkey shoot at an encampment. It was open to anyone wanting to shoot for $5.00 as a fundraiser for the really small town library. The only requirement was pre-1840 rifles and no scopes or adjustable sights. I think the distance was 30-40 yards.There was a wide variety of rifles, mostly percussion and a few flinters.
Most of the guys walked to the line with their tackle box with pre-measured loads, special patches and lube, selected round balls, etc. They got one sighter and then fired on a fresh target for score. There was more butt-wiggling and shifting around that you would believe.
Towards the end this older gentleman walked up with his rifle in a deer-skin sleeve and his hunting pouch. He pulled out an old but well cared for flintlock, loaded from his powderhorn into a powder measure, wrapped the ball in pillow ticking and proceeded to beat everybody like a drum.

Beware the man who shoots a flintlock well!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,734 Posts
No lie, GI...

I wonder how many rounds went astray after that flash in the pan went off and the piece was lowered.

I bet the first guys to use percussion caps all wiped their brows and said - 'Man, am I glad that era's over...'
I'm telling ya, I feel like a DOOFUS trying to shoot the flintlock I got earlier this year! It's way hard.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Thank you to everyone who shared their thoughts and suggestions. Your ideas have really been helping me very much as I think this decision over. (I originally wanted the Dan Wesson Discretion, because the first time I went out to shoot on my own someone put one in my hand, and it turned me into a precision shooter able to shoot the same spot over and over! Not every time, but a good number of them. Way to expensive though, but that is partly why I was looking at the Colt, although I know it will not have that level of accuracy.)

If you want to get the best practice for your carry gun get a duplicate of that gun in 22. If you want to better your shooting skills get a 1911 style gun but the 1911 doesn't demand as much of the shooter that a striker fired or dbl action 9mm auto will.
You have given me a wealth of advice to really think about and apply as I go forward, thank you! It makes a lot of sense that it is quality practice that makes the difference, and I am going to try to apply some of the techniques that you mentioned.

In reference to the quote that I pasted above: when you said that the 1911 .22 style gun would help to better my shooting skills, does that mean overall with any gun, including my carry?

You want to try follow through to the extreme, try a flintlock.
Thanks! Two questions if you have the time:

1) Follow through. I kind of get the idea that follow through is how well you pull the trigger and hold the gun until the bullet is entirely gone, is that correct? What makes really good follow through?

2) What is a flintlock?

Thank you again to everyone!
 
1 - 20 of 37 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top