Colt Forum banner

1 - 20 of 138 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,067 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I saw the report on this forum about the high prices of "Custom Shop" SAA. Researching Standard Manufacturing as I decide who to buy a SAA from, I see a link that says 4 former Colt Master Custom Shop gunsmiths went to Standard. I hadn't heard that before, maybe I don't pay enough attention. But 4 former Colt SAA experts making the SAA at Standard. Who is making the Custom Shop SAAs now at Colt?

People here often say "Colt has the experience in making SAAs" but really experience is in the hands of the Masters. The experts. The ones who made them in the 1960s and talked to people who made them pre WWII. A building, a company name, a piece of machinery, even "operating instructions" are nothing without human expertise and experience. Right? Does Standard have more of that now? Your choice is Colts $3000 + for a Custom Shop SAA with a few requested features, and assumed higher fit and finish or $1800 for a lesser SAA. Or the Standard Mfg SAA which is priced where Colt's base model is, and seems higher quality. Hard to decide to give Colt the same price for worse color case hardening, or double the price for a Colt made "right."

https://www.alloutdoor.com/2018/10/24/standard-mfg-saa-revolvers-high-res-photos/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
I have 3 Standard single actions that I bought from Buds.

They are all as close to perfect as a revolver can get.
Just as good as a USFA or a Colt. AND they're in stock and ready to ship.

I almost peed my pants when all three shot to the exact point of aim.
Fit and finish are perfect. Timing is prefect. You couldn't want any better in an 1873 SAA clone.

The 7.5 inch barreled one is disturbingly accurate. I've shot one hole groups at 15yrds, from a rest.
I think there might be something else going on there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
943 Posts
While I mostly agree with Hearsedriver, and modern Colt SAAs seem better built than those of 25 years ago, I still see enough boo-boos on Colts to make me shake my head. I don't own any SAA that isn't a Colt product but that is pure bias on my part. Given the price difference noted in the OP and in the other current threads on this topic, I'm just glad that there are quality replicas available for the beginner to purchase that are high quality options.

If it were not for the competition Cimarron et al. provided back in the day, pretty safe to say Colt would have continued to make a pretty marginal SAA at a price newbies would not have been willing to pay until the original SAA design ceased to exist in the market as a new item.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,550 Posts
If you think it is a chevy-ford debate you missing a few things. More like Porsche/Mustang debate. Not much of a debate when you look at the details and performance or costs.

Must have been some interesting discussions between USFA staff and Doug, then Colt staff and management, then the owner of Standard and who ever made it to that meeting. Loved to have been a fly on the walls for that.

"So Doug, sell me your CNC program?" "We are shutting down the Colt Custom Shop,selling off all the inventory, and laying off the entire staff next week." "Ya, custom shop orders? No clue, those fools can wait for a refund or a gun...they always do."

"Mr Frutuoso, can we meet for coffee? I have a set of CNC programs I think you might be interested in?". "Sure I know a bunch of very talented locals that could make this all happen...better than it has ever been done :D " "How much can they retail for?" "Our best 2nd hand USFA's still NIB are selling for $2500" "Our whole costs were $750.00" New Colts when they can be had are iffy at best for quality and finish and sell @ $1800. full retail. I can guarantee we'll be better than any current Colt 1st time out of the barn. "Let's make that happen!" :cool: "The new standard of the SAA industry price? Retail @ $2000 retail or better yet $1899. seems reasonable to me." "At $1000 per gun over our typical margins I am in...sign that crew up!" "Now lets run a proto type off that CNC program :)"

Call it the perfect storm.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
358 Posts
Shooter214, may I ask what ammo you used that shoot to point of aim? Thank you.

I don't have one, but your comment makes me think I might want one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,067 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
I've thought that if a) Standard is making a better SAA than Colt and b) many of the old Colt masters went to Standard, why doesn't Colt just licence Standard? Stamp "Colt" on it, and let people get the best of both worlds: 1920 quality, and the vaunted Colt name stamp.

BTW, all I own is real Colts too. But 1st generation. Used to have an Italian cap and ball back in the 70s, but sold it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,349 Posts
You can only buy a SAA from Colt. Anything else is a different name, as Colt has trademarked it. Standard calls it an SAR.

Where are you guys getting this information about colt former employees working for standard and standard talking with colt regarding license agreements?

Yahoody, it’s almost like you were actually there. Were you that fly? I can’t inagjne it went much different than that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,550 Posts
Hydehunter said:
I "heard" that standard is working on doing that with Colt

I hope that is actually true as it would be good for everyone I think. But I "heard" it on the Internet is meaningless.

Here is the link to the current Standard staff. But it's not the entire staff. I've been told there are a number of past Colt and USFA employees there.

http://stdgun.com/meet-the-team/

Peter Rhodes was THE man behind what became the USFA SAA. Richard Stoddard came from years in the Colt Custom shop. Jason Rhodes is another past USFA employee.

No question the entire staff is squared away and the guns show it. I just hope that when someone writes the history of USFA they include the direct connection to Standard and how Standard got to where it is....or will be.... in the SAA world.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
591 Posts
I've thought that if a) Standard is making a better SAA than Colt and b) many of the old Colt masters went to Standard, why doesn't Colt just licence Standard? Stamp "Colt" on it, and let people get the best of both worlds: 1920 quality, and the vaunted Colt name stamp.

BTW, all I own is real Colts too. But 1st generation. Used to have an Italian cap and ball back in the 70s, but sold it.
The patents on the Colt SAA are long expired. What would Colt license??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
Shooter214, may I ask what ammo you used that shoot to point of aim? Thank you.

I don't have one, but your comment makes me think I might want one.
My reloads consisting of a 250gr RNFP loaded with Trail Boss and Unique powder.
The Unique load is the most accurate.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
I've thought that if a) Standard is making a better SAA than Colt and b) many of the old Colt masters went to Standard, why doesn't Colt just licence Standard? Stamp "Colt" on it, and let people get the best of both worlds: 1920 quality, and the vaunted Colt name stamp.
Because a rose by any other name would smell just as sweet.
Shakespeare said that.

It doesn't have to be a "Colt" to be an exceptionally well made revolver.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
987 Posts
I hope that is actually true as it would be good for everyone I think. But I "heard" it on the Internet is meaningless.

Here is the link to the current Standard staff. But it's not the entire staff. I've been told there are a number of past Colt and USFA employees there.

http://stdgun.com/meet-the-team/...
I see they offer LE discounted pricing, active and retired.
Vic
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
480 Posts
I have my goal set on a Standard SAA and not a current Colt. Like most here I have spent a boatload of money on my Uberti's in many forms and levels of craftsmanship. I currently favor my pre-war U.S. finished Uberti that is stunning in it's CCH and function. However at one time I desired a Colt SAA but since I am unable to hold and select a current model in person and the current hammer finish is a put off, I moved on to Standard. Today I must focus on pairing down my least favored SAA's and apply the money towards a Standard in the future. I would like to get a Colt, but they are unable to produce them. BUT I can get a Standard SAA, and at anytime I'm ready they have called me and told directly that they will get me one when I'm ready for it. They have sent me their CCH 1911 Engraved model and it has me floored with their fit and function. Anyway, I find these opinions very interesting and the efforts of Standards workmanship welcome in todays SAA world.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
622 Posts
Because a rose by any other name would smell just as sweet.
Shakespeare said that.

It doesn't have to be a "Colt" to be an exceptionally well made revolver.

I agree.............My USFA Cowboy, USFA 12-22 and my Uberti El Patron Competition come to mind............

Those Standards look great, and are "IN STOCK", but the Uberti does everything I ask of it, for about 1/3 the price.

Tom
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,124 Posts
The patents on the Colt SAA are long expired. What would Colt license??
The patents may be expired but the name "Single Action Army" is most likely trademarked...that doesn't expire unless the company voluntarily gives it up or licenses it. Colt tried to keep other companies from using the "M4" name but a court denied it as "M4" is a government name not a Colt trademark.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,067 Posts
Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
I wasn't talking about the name of these revolvers. I was thinking that if Colt licenced Standard to make them and use the name Colt, it could be stamped on the gun. Then you'd have the best of both worlds: a very well made SAA, and the "Colt" name on it. Like the 2nd Generation cap and ball revolvers, or the recent 1903 re-do. Both were made outside the company, but stamped "Colt".

If I understand it right, Colt was late to the game making the 2nd Generation SAA in the 1950s, after several competitors already were in the market like Great Western.

Then in the 70s Colt didn't want to make 2nd Generation cap and ball Colts, but had their arm twisted by Lou who finally got an off-site arrangement going.

Then in the 2000s another company thought the 1903 hammerless automatic would do well, but Colt didn't want to make them, so they gave their name to the company to make them.

For the past 2-3 years as Colt teeters in bankruptcy, they have had trouble producing the SAA in it's standard form. They've cancelled the black powder frame. They've radically shut down the Custom Shop, and now quote thousands of dollars and many months or years wait if you take the chance to order through it's remnant. Just saying....why not just let Standard be their "custom shop" for SAAs, and stamp them Colt?
 
1 - 20 of 138 Posts
Top