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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Close (very close) but no cigar!!! It would have been like a dream to find that kind of document explaining our D 24, D 44 ... slides.
Alas, we are waiting in vain.
 

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Could it have something to do with metallurgy, as in the hardness of steel..? This is just a hunch, and I have no evidence, but I have seen numbers like this in determining the hardness of steel....I apologize in advance if it leads the curious on a wild goose chase. :)

Maybe, who knows, apart from he fact that FWIK hardness tests were just looking like some sort of a single punch on the slide.
718128
 

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Like RSColts I'm wondering if it may be a control number for a certain heat treatment lot.
That would be surprising to me given the condition of all these examples. Peter's is the only one in decent shape. The only thing the rest of the pictured examples have in common is that they are mismatched and in poor condition, usually with a bad refinish.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
That would be surprising to me given the condition of all these examples. Peter's is the only one in decent shape. The only thing the rest of the pictured examples have in common is that they are mismatched and in poor condition, usually with a bad refinish.
Kwill, do you think my Ithaca has not been refinished????
Then we would at least know that these strange numbers have been applied before the pistol was parkerized????
Peter
 

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Kwill, do you think my Ithaca has not been refinished????
Then we would at least know that these strange numbers have been applied before the pistol was parkerized????
Peter
Sorry, but I don't know. It is often hard to tell a refinish from pictures, especially on parkerized pistols.
 

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QUESTIONS? I notice the serial numbers on the frames are all over the place. Pictures don't show enough of the slides to date them. Do the slide that are marked with D X4 all date to certain time period or are they also from various different periods? Are most of the pistols arsenal rebuilds? Thanks
 

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QUESTIONS? I notice the serial numbers on the frames are all over the place. Pictures don't show enough of the slides to date them. Do the slide that are marked with D X4 all date to certain time period or are they also from various different periods? Are most of the pistols arsenal rebuilds? Thanks
The slides and frames are from virtually all makers and all time periods. The only ones not observed (yet) are US&S and Singer. There are several Colts (both M1911 and M1911A1), Remington Rand, Springfield Armory, Remington UMC and Ithaca.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
QUESTIONS? I notice the serial numbers on the frames are all over the place. Pictures don't show enough of the slides to date them. Do the slide that are marked with D X4 all date to certain time period or are they also from various different periods? Are most of the pistols arsenal rebuilds? Thanks
My Ithaca has one of the so called replacement slides. Looking at the sharp corners of this slide it does not look refinished to me... but as Kwill said it is much more difficult to find out on parkerized pistols than on a civilian blued one. the third pictue shows the serration and the crossed cannons (does not look refinished)
718148

718149

718150
 

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I'm going to hypothesize again. Since these numbers are:
1. Uncommon (1 out of a million has one?) - they probably were not any kind of standard manufacturing mark. The 5 or so makers didn't do it, an other heat treating marks are known and common.
2. Not written about that anyone can find or remember - probably were used by an esoteric entity (Coast Guard, factory security force, post war foreign service, etc)
3. Not a standardized way of putting a "rack number" by the Navy (which usually had large numbers painted on the stocks). A manufacturer doesn't know where each 1911A1 ends up, so they wouldn't be putting any numbers that identify a unit or ship.
4. Have always been 2 digits - there could be only 99 of them, maximum. Only 3, 4, and 5 first digits have been found, so perhaps as few a 30

Questions: have any or all of these had Colt letters purchased? Do they say anything special? If not, see #1 above.

I would guess this is a small number of guns that ended up at some unique quasi-military entity or agency, who marked them so they would be more easily tracked (than using serial numbers). Could be a Boot Camp or Academy, for example.
 

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There are pistols with D64 and D84 but I don't have pictures to post. I have not heard of a D74 to date. Conjecture is fun but not very helpful (no insult intended). That last paragraph is a real stretch.
 

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Sorry you didn't think my hypothesis was plausible. Can you explain why not? Because theories are all that's anyone has been able to offer so far, and going back through the searches I've done, the same question has been asked for years. I just explained why I don't believe the other theories. No, it's not marked "D44" for a US Destroyer, and no, the US Government didn't outfit Great Britain's warships with our Colt 1911A1s. Which are a much greater stretch than mine.

My intent is to show what we know, and don't know. So that people will QUIT guessing. Mine was deductive reasoning, based on those factors. That is called the Scientific Method. I also subscribe to Occam's razor principles. But I'll leave this "advanced" research thread for now.
 

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Now that you've modified your last paragraph I can agree with much of your reasoning but it doesn't really advance any actual knowledge. And, again, no insult intended. A scientist would understand that disagreements aren't personal. :)
 

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One more post to sum up the OPs stated and implied theory: That these were marked by the various WWII 1911A1 manufacturers, as they were made. And that the marks stood for the hull numbers used by British (or perhaps obsolete, old US ships). And somehow the factories shipped these marked guns to the particular ships, bypassing the usual supply chain?
 

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Production of the receivers with the so marked slides covers almost 40 years, and the government program to develop hardened slides is well documented, down to serial numbers. The program was initiated late in WWII, and the war ended with the program still going on.

With the random 1911/1911A1 pistols having nothing in common but the slide marking it appears that the marking was applied after they were transferred as a mixed shipment.
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 · (Edited)
Please friends, could we not start with a very simple step: Has my D 44 pistol - please look at the details - a refinished slide or not? It seems to be an Ithaca 1911A1, it has no arsenal markings. To me the receiver and the slide seem to show the same intensity of (little) use.
Those "replacemnet slides" made by Ithaca with an inscription on the right side were used up in manufacturing regular Ithaca Pistols - not many in the second batch. It seems to be no Colt slide as the ejection port does not have the small radius curve but looks Ithaca. This is information out of Clawson and out the Meadows book (US Military Automatic Pistols... II, p. 109) If the slide is not refinished D44 could be a marking on a factory installed slide done by Ithaca. Kwill said it is nearly impossible to say. Are there other opinions?
If a refinish has been done we have many, many possibilities..
 

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I agree that they appear to have been marked long after the fact. It's probable that they all ended up somewhere in the same location at one point, but that still doesn't bring us any closer to the answer.
 

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Please friends, could we not start with a very simple step: Has my D 44 pistol - please look at the details - a refinished slide or not? It seems to be an Ithaca 1911A1, it has no arsenal markings. To me the receiver and the slide seem to show the same intensity of (little) use.
Those "replacemnet slides" made by Ithaca with an inscription on the right side were used up in manufacturing regular Ithaca Pistols - not many in the second batch. It seems to be no Colt slide as the ejection port does not have the small radius curve but looks Ithaca. This is information out of Clawson and out the Meadows book (US Military Automatic Pistols... II, p. 109) If the slide is not refinished D44 could be a marking on a factory installed slide done by Ithaca. Kwill said it is nearly impossible to say. Are there other opinions?
If a refinish has been done we have many, many possibilities..
Schuren,

Most often, it is difficult to determine if the Stamp(s) (in this case the D 44), is under the parkerizing or on Top of it. Can you post any other close-up pictures of it.

Here's pictures of stamps on top of the parkerizing (G.H.D. and Released...).

Best Regards,

IMG_1161-2.jpg


IMG_1158-3.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
You are right. But in this case it seems rather simple: have a look. The actual Numbers of 1213878 were stamped after parkererizing. But the D 44 does not show the slightest trace of being put on top of the parkerizing - it looks exactly the same as the UNITED STATES PROPERTY on the receiver - this is my impression:
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The standard heat treatment for the WWII slide (front) was D-50 to 56. Too much variation to be heat treatment.
 
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