[Acrobat]

I can use a little help with a DS I acquired last night at local shop. It was the “U-Fix It” bin because it was missing some small parts. Now I need some help identifying the parts needed and would like to see if anyone can help with history.

The serial number is 859992 and I have a picture here: http://www.users.qwest.net/~skurt1/Revos/DS.JPG

As you can tell from the picture, the gun has a parkerized finish which I suspect is a redo but the lettering and all roll marks remain clear and sharp so it does not appear to have bead blasted.

I’d appreciate if anyone can tell me the date of manufacture and what finish it probably came with.

I also need some help finding a schematic so I can identify missing parts. As you can see from the picture, there are screws missing above the trigger and in the front of the hammer. There is also one missing on the back strap below the hammer.

Any help will be much appreciated.

 

[A1A]

Although they show a diamondback, all the D frames are pretty much alike internally.
http://www.e-gunparts.com/productschem.asp?chrMasterModel=0660zDETECTIVE%20SPECIAL
You are missing a side plate screw. It also appears to be drilled and tapped for a hammer shroud. Yes the markings look pretty good. The serial dates to 1964. Question is, are there other internal parts missing. Most are available but most also require fitting and are not just drop in. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
If it's your photo, how about some with the stocks and side plate off?

 

[Acrobat]

Thanks A1A,

I downloaded the Numrich schematic earlier but have not disassembled the revolver yet and wasn’t sure if the schematic was “close enough.” I’ll take it apart later and see if other parts appear missing.

The hammer shroud answer sounds right since it is tapped on both sides.

I forgot to mention that in addition to inspector marks, there is also a stamp near the bottom under the grips with the letters “INS.”

 

[JCM298A]

If you want a shroud, you can get it here:

http://www.wallerandson.com/

John

 

[lonewolf]

Gun was most likely issued to the Immigration and Naturalization Service(INS) in its last "government service". Could have been surplused from the military to the INS, but would have other markings.

This may explain the parkerized finish.

I have some D Frame internal parts.

Bud

 

[dfariswheel]

An "INS" stamp on the side of the grip frame does NOT mean Immigration and Naturalization Service.

The "INS" stamp is an inspectors stamp that's common on all most all Colt revolvers from this time frame.

Acrobat: Again, please note that Colt revolver action parts DO NOT "drop in".
Virtually ALL internal parts MUST be hand fitted by a really qualified pistolsmith, and he has to be one who's qualified to work on Colt's.

I can't be sure from the attached picture, but it appears as though the front plate screw head is broken off.

 

[Gunsmoke]

Acrobat and others,

You could consider to sent it to Colt.
From what I've read on this Forum, the service is very good.

Just my .02

 

[lonewolf]

Only one of my Colts in the 1956-71 time frame that has the "INS" mark is a Florida Highway Patrol(FHP#53x) Nickled Trooper that was made in 1966. And I a checked 10!

So,it doesn't mean INS,and I thought the poster said it was OUTSIDE the grip frame. This gun just "reeks" of military issue,and I handled quite a few D.S. between 1961-67. The D.S. was "standard" issue to CIC and CID,including some square butts made during W.W.Two that were still around and going strong. Don't think the Govt. sold many as surplus,as they preffered to crush them,or "give' to another agency. A guy in my town retired from the INS,and I know that at one time he carried a D.S.(plainclothes).

Wonder is the INS was "required" on any "contract guns",be they military or for an "agency",federal,state, or local?

Depending on what the initial poster paid for the gun,from the "fix it up pile",and what will be needed to get it functioning,will it be worth it to fix it up???

Don't think with our "lawsuit happy" society,that I would sell "fixer uppers" if I ran a gun shop,even if the buyer signed a waiver!! Just too many things that could go wrong (and dangerous) with a "kitchen table job.

Bud

 

[Acrobat]

Good News,

I took the DS apart and found only the side plate screw and mainspring were missing and the action seems to work fine as I do a manual “fat finger” for the missing mainspring.

dfariswheel: The side plate screw is just missing and not broken but thanks for asking.

Here is the DS with side plate off - http://www.users.qwest.net/~skurt1/Revos/DS-Grip.JPG

Here is a close-up of the INS stamp - http://www.users.qwest.net/~skurt1/Revos/Ins.jpg

BTW – Ignore the DPS number crudely scratched above the stamping. It comes from the fact that my local dealer acquired these through a deal with the Arizona Department of Public Safety (DPS – formerly, the Arizona Highway Patrol). Those numbers appear on all of the confiscated weapons and I do not know of any special significance (purchased 4 from this deal but three were S&W’s, a fact I hesitate to admit on this forum except that I know that most revo addicts are eclectic and will understand my promiscuity.)

And just for reference, here is the serial number and inspection mark - http://www.users.qwest.net/~skurt1/Revos/DS-Front.JPG
NOTE: that inspector “5” appears on both the frame and the grip.

Thanks JCM298a for the site with hammer shrouds. I may just add one once I know more about the DS.

Thanks Lonewolf for adding some info and intrigue to this. My first response when I saw this parked revo was “military.” The marks seemed too crisp for anything else and the scavengering of simple parts seemed typical.

Then again, it also smells of a novice trying to have a gun refinished and never figuring out how to put it back together¬Ö

 

[lonewolf]

acrobat; looks like it did some "agency" use. In your great photo of the INS(which is a Colt mark) looks like the initials "D P S,then a 0 or o,maybe and the number 291. Looks like this was put on with an electric pencil,and NOT by the factory! DPS usually stands for Department of Public Safety; a politically correct name for the police,with fire and rescue often in the department.

The parkerizing could be "cvilian applied",and its hard to tell without actually seeing the gun in person.

Spring and screw shouldnt set you out that much.

Bud

 

[Acrobat]

lonewolf,

No, you missed the part in my earlier message where I explain the DPS #. This was a batch of (1400) guns from DPS (Arizona Department of Public Safety (previously called AZ Highway Patrol). Some of these were service weapons, like all of their .22 armory S&W Model 18's that they trained recruits on back in the 60's before issuing them S&W Model 19's. Some we confiscated/recovered but unclaimed gun and there is no easy way to tell the difference.

BTW - I know several "older" DPS guys who trained on those 18's...

In this case, the DPS number doesn't mean much except that the gun was sent to the recycle bin. Or so I'm told...

 

[JudgeColt]

I am quite sure the revolver is refinished because the vibra engraving should appear "in the white" since it was applied after the gun was made, and it is instead Parkerized (or more likely a similar aftermarket process) "over."

The "VP" Verified Proof mark is factory-applied after finishing and examining it closely should show burnishing in the "bottom" of the stamping. If there is no burnishing, then the finish was applied after it left the factory.

The wear on the stocks does not match the wear on the gun.

In my opinion, based on what is shown, the gun is refinished.

 

[Acrobat]

JudgeColt,

I agree and thank for the tip about the VP, it is definately not in the white.

BTW - e-gunparts was out of the DS parts I needed (mainspring and side plate screw) but Popprts had them for $17 including shipping - http://www.poppertsgunparts.com

 

[A1A]

To clarify, I believe, the "DPS" engraving would likely be in the white as it would have been done sometime after the gun was finished and delivered. The VP mark is a factory mark and would have even a factory finish on/in it. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Maybe only I thought there was possible confusion. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[Acrobat]

Thanks for the clarification, AIA.

I really should have understood your meaning the first time.

The electro-pencil confused me because I couldn’t see how it could have been parkerized over the marking if this was a confiscated gun thrown into a bin for disposal.

I had never heard of DPS issuing any DS’s and in addition if it was issued when new, it would been AZ Highway Patrol and not DPS…

An answer to this came from a list member retired from DPS:

[ QUOTE ]
The Colt could have been bought new by the old AHP because we did have a few plain clothes assignments. Governor's Security and Special Services could be either uniform or plain clothes. I was in Spec. Ser. for three months in `69.

It could also have come from Liquor Agents or Narcotics Agents when DPD absorbed them from State Liquor and the AG's Office. I know there were two Det. Sp's that had hammer shrouds. An armorer gave me both of them. Both were blued and had the rampant Colt on them.

Yours could have been seized as evidence and then awarded to DPS by the court.

[/ QUOTE ]

At this members suggestion, I’m next going to ask a friend who is a DPS Sergent if he can check with the armorer to see if any records exist on this or a couple of similarly marked S&W 12’s I got at the same sale.

 

[JudgeColt]

I disagree with A1A that the Verified Proof will have factory finish "on/in it," unless I misunderstand what is meant by that statement. The "VP is applied AFTER the gun is finished, so will show burnished finish deep in the stamp and probably some small areas of "white" where it cuts into the metal and raises it along the edges. If the "VP" on this gun shows an even finish and no burnishing down in the stamp, then I believe that indicates a finish applied after the stamp was made, and the finish therefore cannot be original.

 

[A1A]

Disagreement accepted. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif I was trying to clarify because I thought that Acrobat was equating the vibro engraving process and the VP mark instead of the DPS marking. I concur with your keen observation that the DPS engraving would have been done after the factory and if the gun had not been refinished would likely be quite "in the white" and wanted to be sure that the comment was correctly interpreted. I also appreciate your detailed description of the VP mark appearance. Good info. I was trying to contrast it simply as typically appearing "more" finished and "less" in-the-white although close (magnified) inspection of inspection and/or assembler marks certainly does reveal in-the-white areas. Nuff said. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[A1A]

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=40592599 /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[JudgeColt]

Another person who thinks INS means something other than "Inspected." Sad. Note the Agent stocks.

 

[Laserlips]

Please excuse me for interrupting this thread, I'm trying to learn to post pictures, and this is my feeble attempt.

Sorry.
JP