I believe it was and is common practice to first plate with copper before nickel. There was a nickel Mark III Trooper up on GunBroker recently that had copper showing on the front of the cylinder, apparently due to use of abrasives to remove lead deposits. How much polishing is too much, I do not know, but I never use polishes on nickel unless the nickel is tarnished or scratched.

Electroless nickel is deposited directly on the base steel without any underlying copper coating.

 

I thought copper plate was used by gun companies that made cheaper guns because a thick copper plate under the nickel would fill in a lot of areas that were not polished well. I thought the higher quality gun makers plated directly to well polished steel. At least this is what I was told by someone here a while ago.
If you plated with copper first you didn't have to take as much time to prep the underlying steel to make it look perfect.

 

The amount of copper plating would never be enough to offset flaws in the metal finishing process. As others mentioned, the copper was used so that nickel adhered to it better than nickel could adhere to bare steel. Any plating adheres to the surface, and if the surface is uneven, the copper plating will also be uneven. Plating doesn't seek its own level.

 

"Cheap" nickel finishes may have used the copper to enhance the nickel finish, but it also works for every nickel finish. I also think the copper adheres better to steel than nickel, and nickel adheres better to copper than steel, so it is standard practice to plate first with copper and then nickel.

The Trooper with the copper cylinder face just closed in the last week or so, maybe two, so if you want to see it first hand, it should be easy to find.

 

Far as I know, no reputable practioner/company would ever use a Copper layer under Nickel plating for a Gun...they would do it properly, and, as it was always done - plate the Nickel directly on to the prepared Steel.

 

On the contrary, I've seen quite a few nickel Smith's that were worn down to a visible copper coating, and these were from the 70's-80's time frame. I am of the opinion it was common practice by both Colt and Smith to first coat with copper prior to the final nickel finish.

I need to read and understand more about the "Electroless" plating process.

 

It depends. The Adams Process for nickel plating was patented in 1869 and started plating in 1870 and to the best of my understanding Colt & S&W did NOT do in-house plating but rather farmed it out. Thsi is covered in the book The S&W American Model by Jerry Pate as he quotes letters to M.W. Robinson from S&W about bad plating jobs & ill fitted ivory "stocks" by contractors. Isaac Adams Jr., who invented the nickel plating process, licensed its usage for the next 17 yrs. and became a millionaire.

Dr I. Adams
of the United States patented a nickel ammonium sulphate bath in 1869. His main
contribution to the process, and one for which he was much chastised by rivals,
was that the electrolytic bath should be neutral and “free from the presence of
potash, soda, alumina, lime or nitric acid, or from any acid or alkaline
reaction.” Dr. Adams engaged in an aggressive marketing campaign for his
solution in the United States and Europe, resulting in a near universal
acceptance by industrial countries. Experimentation and innovation continued by
Adams’s rivals, who attempted to incorporate nickel sulphate, and citric or
benzoic acids to the electrolytic bath in an attempt to develop alternate plating
processes. Some of these caught on while others garnered small to no
followings.

The History of Nickel Plating

 

I never questioned if all nickel plated firearms were cooper underneath since my Python has cooper showing where the finish has been rubbed down by the holster.

As for polishing whether you are polishing a nickel finish or a blued gun it should be done sparingly not routinely. It is meant to return the lost luster appearance and then be properly cared for thereafter thus eliminating the need to repeatedly polish it. Remember that polish IS a mild abrasive and that its use or the process of polishing removes a microscopic layer of finish. Eventually this removal of thin layer of finish after thin layer of finish will add up to a noticeable loss.

flanman

 

I agree with your point, but feel the need to get nitpicky. It is the type of polish that is the concern. Renaissance Wax is a polish, but not an abrasive, therefore a good non-abrasive wax can be used thousands of times over with no ill effect to the firearm. An abrasive polish should be used very sparingly. I would personally never use an abrasive polish on a blue gun.

 

I remember seeing a factory nickel 45 x 4-3/4 single action made in 1931 a few years ago that was pretty nice but there were a few places where you could see a copper color where the nickel had flaked off. I don't know if it was a steady policy for colt to plate before nickeling because I've seen other factory lettered nickel guns that were bare metal under the nickel finish. Perhaps it has something to do with the time era of when the gun was produced or was it a hit and miss proposition?

 

I have a 1903 4 3/4 44/40 in my collection that has a lot of copper showing where the nickle has worn off,it has a colt letter w/it & was sent to a mexican railway & the backstrap is engraved w/the initials of the railway,the colt letter reads the same way,no name of the rr. just initials.

 

From 1979 Nickel Python:

 

I couold be wrong but 9t has been my understanding for decades now that steel
must ber first copper plated before nickel will adhere properly. ?????

Its a chemical thing LOL

 

A Eureka moment. It seems that when different metals are being plated at the same time, they take the plating at different rates and thicknesses. So the flash of copper plate made all the base metal the same, copper. Voila the thickness and time to plate becomes the same for each plated piece, say gun after gun. Remember you had case hardened parts, heat tempered steel parts and mild steel alloys, etc. to deal with. It made for a better plate job. They did use nickel for its hardness to abrasion, lubricity, and resistance to the elements. All good reasons.
Merwin2.

 

In years past cheap guns like Iver Johnson and H&R top breaks were iron plated to act as a base coat. This was cheaper then the more expensive copper undercoat.
This is why you'll see these old guns with the plating peeling off but no copper under layer. The iron looks like steel so it looks like there is no under coat.

There used to be a rumor that Colt nickel plated Pythons that had a error in the polishing and that these were lesser quality guns. The story went that the nickel would cover and conceal any mistakes so "bad" Pythons were plated and the "good" Pythons were blued.
The exact opposite is true. Any defects in the steel will be made MORE apparent by the plating, so Colt had to be even more careful with Pythons that were to be plated.

Over the years top gun companies have used nickel plating over copper or direct to the steel at various times. Apparently as the science and efficiency of the process got better, the need for the copper under plate was eliminated. S&W despensed with it some years ago.

 

I think it's the quality and uniformity of the underlying steel that makes the most difference...as you say, no need.

 

In general, copper is used as the substrate under nickel electroplateto improve the adhesion of the plate. Copper adheres stronly to steel, and nickel adheres strongly to copper, but nickel does not adhere well to steel. Accordingly, conventional plating processes would apply a"strike", or thin coating of copper using high current density-low bath concentration techniques to improve the adhesion of the copper to the steel. Then a low current-high bath concentration nickel process would be used to deposit the overcoat of nickel. Electroplating is a relatively rapid process, so parts can be finished expeditiously and at relatively low cost.

Electroless nickel plating, on the other hand, is a pure chemical process where the bath concentration, temperature and time of immersion control the plate thickness. Electroless (EN) platining is a much slower process, depositing plate at the approximate rate of 0.001"/hr at 190 degrees. While EN plate is very tightly adhering, and can withstand bendind through a tight radius without separating from the substrate, the process controll requirements are rigourous, and the cost of the deposited coating is significantly higher than production electroplate. In general, electroplated finishes are used with brightners to make the finish "sparkle" while EN plate is not as shiny without a post-plate polish (= additional cost).

 

In addition, environmental regulations have also had a dramatic effect on plating. The "best" copper plating was a cyanide process, but disposal of cyanide wastes has become prohibitive. Likewise with chromium. Hexavalent chrome was the process of choice, but EPA regs and the Clean Water Act have forced a switch to the trivalent chrome solutions, which are both less effective and slower, but less harm to the environment. Many plating shops have been forced out of business because of the pollution controls imposed upon them, and the problems of dealing with strong acids and metallic salts.

 

Colt was using a copper base as far back as the mid 19th century. On the early American made percussion pistols the straps were brass and silver plate was applied directly. When the Colt factory opened in London the British did not like "flashy" straps so the London made revolvers - Pockets and Navies - were fitted with steel straps and blued. Occasionally someone would come along and ask for silver plated straps so a copper base had to be applied first. I have a London made 1851 Navy (c. 1855) that has such straps and the copper base is very much in evidence.

Rio

 

The silver plating process used on percussion revolvers by Colt was not an electrical process such as we have today. It was a chemical process, in which the copper coated or brass parts were immersed in a bath of silver salts along with a piece of silver. The silver metal was then chemically deposited on the copper or brass. This was a slow process, and since time is money in manufacturing, the silver plate was very thin and has survived mainly only on deluxe finished guns. It quickly wore off on most guns that we see today.
By the way, electro-plating in manufacturing dates from after the Civil War.

 

I purchased a pair of nickel plated Colt SAA's in 1996 for use in CAS. The nickel started flaking off the fronts and leading edges of the cylinders within six months. There was no copper under the nickel. I sent the cylinders back to Colt for refinishing at no charge but they started popping again 6 months later. Colt refused to refinish a second time since their finish warranty is 1 year????????????? I explained that it had only been 6 months since the refinish but the request fell on deaf ears. The customer rep even asked if I was actually shooting these pistols. I still shoot them and the flaking has not gotten any worse. So, Colt stopped copper washing sometime before 1996.

 

I have two Colt lettered original nickel finish revolvers from the early 1930's. Both have nickel peeling from shooting. No copper is under the nickel. It is just very well polished steel under it.