[CJS57]

Can anyone help me explain this Dragoon? I looked in my reference books but cannot figure out why this Dragoon has the 4-digit serial number of 1362? It should be in the 20,000 range. Not a commemorative, not an Italian gun, it is original finish standard gun in all respects and the gun is not messed with, no box or history. It is a very high polish blue and 50 or so were made higher polish so maybe that is it. Otherwise factory error? Maybe Colt forgot a 2 at the beginning of the serial? All comments welcome.

 

[elliotf]

Is there anything on the back strap?

 

[steg]

Is there anything on the back strap?

And, what is the number written in the groove of the grips and on the cylinder pin?

 

[CJS57]

Nothing on the back strap. This is a regular standard grade 2nd Gen. C series made at Colt in 1974 or so. They were all numbered in the 20,000 range, except this one! I don't see any other numbers from the outside. I really want to take it apart unless absolutely necessary.

Not sure what the groove of the grips is?

 

[gunner5]

Besides the serial number not being in the range of a 2nd generation Dragoon, isn't the barrel address also wrong?

CJS57 - What do you mean when you say 'It is a very high polish blue and 50 or so were made higher polish so maybe that is it." If we can't place this gun, how do you know that 50 are higher polish?

 

[elliotf]

"Besides the serial number not being in the range of a 2nd generation Dragoon, isn't the barrel address also wrong?"

Yes,

 

[gunner5]

I did some googling on the address. Though not correct for a Dragoon, it started appearing somewhere around 1870, or so, and I am assuming on the the SAA revolvers. It seems to be the standard address on later guns, as well, i.e., 1911 70's & 80's series, .38, and numerous others. I am not an expert on this, so other can chime in and correct my assumptions.

 

[steg]

I agree with you. I do not think this is a real 2nd gen. Colt. It is probably a mixed bag.

 

[CJS57]

Gunner, Thanks for your comments! Quote: "What do you mean when you say 'It is a very high polish blue and 50 or so were made higher polish."
I just picked that up from a book. The high polish version is listed on page 79 of Fjestad's 1st Ed. " Modern Black Powder Values".

I will post pictures later of the inside parts. The grips and brass back strap have the serial as 11362 rather than 1362 which is on the outside parts, so that is odd. No Italian proof marks inside what so ever.

 

[elliotf]

I just noticed that the cylinder on the O.P.'s Dragoon says "U.S. PATENT" while mine says "COLTS PATENT"

 

[CJS57]

Thanks for the comments! Here are more pictures of the inside with a higher serial of 11362 on the grips and back strap. I too wonder and doubt if this is really a Colt! But if not a Colt then what is it? How can a non-Colt have a Colt address and Colt patent marking? San Marco put the Colt address on a few guns about 30 years ago (I have one) but were quickly shut down by Colt and that address is the "correct" 2nd Gen. style not like the old style address on this gun. Plus the San Marco guns were loaded with deep Italian proof marks everywhere, inside and out. So this gun is not one of those. Colt would not usually roll stamp their name on a copy assembled in Italy. Turnbull would not roll stamp a copy either. Has anyone ever seen a gun such as this, it cannot be one of kind. Sure, Bubba is a prime suspect but the trouble with that theory is this gun is far beyond Bubba's level of craftsmanship, it really appears to be factory made. But where and by whom?

 

[CJS57]

There are no proof marks or serial number inside the frame area or cylinder pin area. None on the cylinder or under the barrel either. The rifling is 7 groove. Maybe that is a clue?

 

[elliotf]

The S/N 11362 does come up as a 1974 shipped (1971 1851 Navy Model .36 Caliber)

 

[gunner5]

Elliotf - You are correct with the serial number for an 1851 Navy, but he has a 3rd Dragoon and the serial numbers for a 2nd generation Dragoon doesn't start until #20801 (which is also a 1974 shipping).

CJS57 - The Dragoons have 7 groove rifling. The mystery continues.

You may want to contact Dennis Russell for his insight on this.

Rob

 

[fingersmcgee]

Howdy all. I've just joined this forum; but have been active on the BP forums for a umber of years & have been collecting 2nd Gen Blackpowder Colt's since 2003, and BP firearms much longer than that.

To answer the question posed about a 4 digit Dragoon. Back in the 90s, Colt's Patent Firearms, which morphed into USFA, produced a few percussion Colt's models 1851, 1860, 3rd Model Dragoon) with the intent of expanding the line along with their SAAs. This is probably one of those Dragoons. Here is a link to a CAS City thread from 2008.

 

[gunner5]

Hello Fingersmcgee, I see that you finally came over from the Firing Line forum. Good to have you here.

Rob

 

[CJS57]

Thanks everyone! Mystery solved, it is a USFA!

More info is here:
https://www.google.com/#q=usfa+dragoon

 

[fingersmcgee]

Hello Fingersmcgee, I see that you finally came over from the Firing Line forum. Good to have you here.

Rob

Thanks Gunner. Don't know why I hadn't done it before now.

 

[1938]

Unmarked 3rd Model Dragoon copy Except three digit S/N

Thanks Gunner. Don't know why I hadn't done it before now.

I recently got a totally unmarked,except a three digit serial number,third model dragoon which is in the white with about thirty yearof laying up patina.Workmanship is excellant,except the frame screws and the loading lever screw are flush with the services(not dome headed), Barrel is 1/16 th short and the weight is two oz.light.any thoughts ?

1938

 

[Bill38]

Welcome to the forum 1938. I can't help with the issues regarding these revolvers but always glad to welcome a new member.