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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Friends, I tried this 8 years ago... but I will do it again:

This Revolver probably went to Australia.. but it was engraved. Have a look... Revolver Gun Firearm Trigger Gun accessory
Revolver Gun barrel
Firearm Gun Revolver Trigger Starting pistol
Revolver Gun Firearm Trigger Gun accessory

This is what the Archive Letter tells us: No. 499984, 38, barrrel 7 1/2, April 15, 1924, blue ivory stocks, to T.B. Hooper and Company address unknown, Colt factory Order 8452/1.

T. B. Hooper & Co. was a gun dealer in Brisbane Australia and the letters on the left grip probably are: F. I. T. B.



JJ Roberts wrote 8 years ago it looks like Kornbrath...
What do you think????

Keep safe,
Peter
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Those two NS are much, much more detailed and in a different league....

Is there anything, any detail that would help to find out who did the job on my OM. I looked under the grips and everywhere on the revolver but found no signature. Maybe it was an unimportant job that did not deserve one... But I was surprised by the gold inlaid word "Colt".
My theory: In the US this was nothing special to have a Colt but the revolver went to Australia....

I would really like to know a bit more... so if you need some more pictures of details, please ask.
Thank you for looking
Peter

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Those two NS are much, much more detailed and in a different league....

Is there anything, any detail that would help to find out who did the job on my OM. I looked under the grips and everywhere on the revolver but found no signature. Maybe it was an unimportant job that did not deserve one... But I was surprised by the gold inlaid word "Colt".
My theory: In the US this was nothing special to have a Colt but the revolver went to Australia....

I would really like to know a bit more... so if you need some more pictures of details, please ask.
Thank you for looking
Peter

View attachment 693605
Peter

I was trying to point out the style of Kornbrath engraving. His work is much sought after and brings a healthy premium to the price. Of the three engravers, Glahn, Gough & Kornbrath, that engraved guns during the period that your gun was produced it was Kornbrath that did far fewer guns than the other two and most were elaborately engraved. I have studied the engraved Colts from this time period and have never seen one that had the COLT name done in gold like yours. While your gun is exquisitely done and a beautiful piece, I personally believe that it was engraved after WWII and probably in the 1960-1990 time period. I have seen the COLT name in gold during this time period and past. Please keep in mind that while your gun does have a work order number, most likely for the stocks, the engraving would have been shown on the letter. See Example:



The work on these two appears to have been done by William Gough:



The above information is purely my opinion and certainly not etched in stone. Others may have additional information and/or opinions.

Respectively,

Cam.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
more questions

This is definitely an interesting idea. I know very well that the revolver shows no factory engraving.
It was a special order revolver. But this can be the ivory grips alone. I have a plain SAA from 1926 with plain ivory grips that is a special order too.


But what seems to me an argument against your post-war theory is the work on the grips. The grips are definitely old and came with the gun as the archive letters shows. The four letters on the left grip are part of the total embellishment of the revolver. And the gun has been used quite a bit (and not very carefull) after it was blued on top of the engraving. Please have a look ath the second picture. The style of the four letters is something I can not explain and place.

My idea is that it was used as showpiece in the (not so small) shop of T. B. Hooper and Co. in Brisbane, Australia. That could be the reason to emphasize the word "Colt" and the four letters of F. I. T. B. (... T.B. could be simple, but F.I...)

Thank you very much for helping me to find out more... that is the fun in Colt collecting.
Peter
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This is definitely an interesting idea. I know very well that the revolver shows no factory engraving.
It was a special order revolver. But this can be the ivory grips alone. I have a plain SAA from 1926 with plain ivory grips that is a special order too.


But what seems to me an argument against your post-war theory is the work on the grips. The grips are definitely old and came with the gun as the archive letters shows. The four letters on the left grip are part of the total embellishment of the revolver. And the gun has been used quite a bit (and not very carefull) after it was blued on top of the engraving. Please have a look ath the second picture. The style of the four letters is something I can not explain and place.

My idea is that it was used as showpiece in the (not so small) shop of T. B. Hooper and Co. in Brisbane, Australia. That could be the reason to emphasize the word "Colt" and the four letters of F. I. T. B. (... T.B. could be simple, but F.I...)

Thank you very much for helping me to find out more... that is the fun in Colt collecting.
Peter
View attachment 693771 View attachment 693773 View attachment 693775
Peter

My thoughts on the stocks are that they did indeed come with the gun however my guess is that the initials were carved into them when the engraving was done many years later. A point in fact: If the initials were carved into the stocks when the gun was shipped it would most likely have been noted in the Colt factory letter. Any Colt factory letter that has a work order number, hence: Colt factory Order 8452/1 indicates that there was something special done to the gun. In the case of your gun the information points to the ivory stocks but does not call out the carved initials. Just my thoughts.

Cam.


 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Cam.
That is my opinion too. The gun came with plain ivory stocks and was later on engraved and the ivory stocks got those four letters. My argument was that the condition of the gun shows that is was used after engraving quite a bit and with less care than it deserved - look at the cylinder. That points at a pre-war job.

Engraving: The revolver is a probably 3/4 engraving. It is much more refined than a factory engraved Army Special I have. But it is miles away from a full job like those two NS
My question is: Does anyone recognize the style? Or was this the kind of engraving dozens of engravers could and would do???? Please have a look at the top of the barrel. I think this is special...
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Peter, Whoever did the work sure did a nice job of it!! If it was sent back to Colt in the late 1950's or a bit later, Alvin White may have done the work. He did quite a bit of Gold inlays.
Hello Saintclair,
If the gun had not been used that much after engraving this could be a possibility. And those four letters point in the direction of B.T. Hooper - and that person was probably gone in the 1950s.
Peter

Tricky Questions... but that is the fun in Colt collecting.
 

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Cam.
That is my opinion too. The gun came with plain ivory stocks and was later on engraved and the ivory stocks got those four letters. My argument was that the condition of the gun shows that is was used after engraving quite a bit and with less care than it deserved - look at the cylinder. That points at a pre-war job.

Engraving: The revolver is a probably 3/4 engraving. It is much more refined than a factory engraved Army Special I have. But it is miles away from a full job like those two NS
My question is: Does anyone recognize the style? Or was this the kind of engraving dozens of engravers could and would do???? Please have a look at the top of the barrel. I think this is special...
View attachment 693883

Peter

I studied that top view when you first ask for opinions and it is a pattern that Rudolph Kornbrath used however if you study the engraving closely you can see the difference in quality of engraving. Don't get me wrong, I have studied engraving for years, and whom ever did yours did a masterful job. However Kornbrath was a Master's Master and his lines were one of a kind. Here is the same pattern as yours that was done on a pair of SAA's by Kornbrath:



Your Colt OMT:


Regards,

Cam.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
thank you!

You are right! Now I see the difference in style... This is very obvious....much more like a soft and flowing wave whereas your Kornbrath is very exact.

Thank you very much!!!!! But is there any idea "whodunnit"...
Peter

just for fun... have a look at some real colt factory engraving....from 1912 and probably not too expensive and done by some very little master. This AS got a new barrel later on (6 inch) but what makes it Revolver Tool
a bit special: an Ideal shoulder stock holster

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You are right! Now I see the difference in style... This is very obvious....much more like a soft and flowing wave whereas your Kornbrath is very exact.

Thank you very much!!!!! But is there any idea "whodunnit"...
Peter

just for fun... have a look at some real colt factory engraving....from 1912 and probably not too expensive and done by some very little master. This AS got a new barrel later on (6 inch) but what makes it View attachment 694093 a bit special: an Ideal shoulder stock holster

View attachment 694089 View attachment 694091
Peter. Glad to assist whenever I can. As far as who'd did the engraving on your two guns, it's anybodies guess. I would take Rick's advice and approach the Engravers Guild to see what they say.

Cam.
 

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While I’ve never owned a Kornbrath engraved handgun, I have owned and do presently own quite a few rifles done by him. I’m definitely no expert but do feel I’ve seen enough of his engraving to be somewhat knowledgeable. I do not believe this is his work and can say that with reasonable certainty. The were many engravers capable of work of that quality and it would be hard to determine as there are no particular telltale signs. Many engravers, even if they didn’t sign their work, still had particular characteristics that could attribute a gun to them. It’s true Kornbrath rarely signed a piece but I can spot one a mile away, as I can an engraving by Josef Fugger, who learned from Kornbrath. And I agree with Cam and believe the work on this gun was done later.
 

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An added note, the Engraver’s Guild Forum is certainly worth a try but my experience is that the majority of the modern engravers aren’t exactly students of the engravers of the past. Most really couldn’t seem to care. To recognize Kornbrath, Fugger, White, Griebel, or any of the Colt engravers (Young, Helfricht, Nimschke, or the Young’s), a guy just really needs to have held a lot of them in his hand and studied them intently and repeatedly.
 
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