Colt Forum banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
450 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
FEDERAL - 38 SPECIAL - 110 GRAIN CONTROLLED EXPANSION BULLET - NO. 38F-TD - FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT USE ONLY

I have 4 boxes of this stuff that I received from my Father in law when he gave me the 1966 Officers Model Match 38. After doing some research, I have found this.............is this correct? I found it on the internet so it must be so...........LOL

- old "Treasury" load. Federal and Winchester produced this ammo under contract for the treasury department and other federal agencies. Other LE agencies also issued this ammo, most noteably CHP. It was loaded to roughly 15% above +P ammo for about 23,000 PSI.

There are differing opinions whether this can be shot in the 38. Some say why stress it, while others say the "Officer's Model will shoot +P loads until your trigger finger wears out without any serious trouble."

After reading other posts about similar questions here on the forum, I will go with the thought of why add extra stress and not run it in my 38. However can this be shot without problem in My King Cobra?

Lastly, don't shoot it in anything and just keep it in the safe for the history?

Thanks Scott
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,590 Posts
.38 +P+ should be fired from a .357 Magnum chambered revolver. Most .38 revolvers are only heat treated to match the caliber marked on them. Their manuals will usually state they're safe for modern ammunition meeting SAAMI standards...+P+ ammo exceeds those limits with no recognized standards.

While modern steel frame .38 Special revolver might withstand some +P+ rounds, wear would be accelerated and catastrophic damage could suddenly occur. I've seen pics of top straps ruptured and even blown off smaller frame revolvers.

Makers of the ammunition will often have agencies who buy the ammunition sign hold harmless agreements should they be used in handguns not intended for its use.

I had a full case of the Winchester...sold much of it and maybe have two boxes left. My Python snubby loves the stuff.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
239 Posts
I am sure you will get lots of opinions, mine are that your Officers match is the same size frame as a Python and it will handle those rounds just fine. Of course 2.7 grains of bulleye and a 148 grain hwbc will be more fun and poke cleaner holes in the target.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
450 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
.38 +P+ should be fired from a .357 Magnum chambered revolver. Most .38 revolvers are only heat treated to math the caliber marked on them. Their manuals will usually state they're safe for modern ammunition meeting SAAMI standards...+P+ ammo exceeds those limits with no recognized standards.

While modern steel frame .38 Special revolver might withstand some +P+ rounds, wear would be accelerated and catastrophic damage could suddenly occur. I've seen pics of top straps ruptured and even blown off smaller frame revolvers.

Makers of the ammunition will often have agencies who buy the ammunition sign hold harmless agreements should they be used in handguns not intended for its use.

I had a full case of the Winchester...sold much of it and maybe have two boxes left. My Python snubby loves the stuff.
Thanks for this info..............I think I will stay on the safe side and only use it in the 357.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
450 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I am sure you will get lots of opinions, mine are that your Officers match is the same size frame as a Python and it will handle those rounds just fine. Of course 2.7 grains of bulleye and a 148 grain hwbc will be more fun and poke cleaner holes in the target.
Thanks, I have read this as well, it is the predecessor to the Python. I am lucky now to own such a nice firearm, I believe I will only shoot it occasionally with a much milder 38 bullet.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,464 Posts
The ammunition may have collector value to ammunition collectors. As I recall, some far left jurisdictions forbade the use of .357 Magnum revolvers as "too powerful," so the "solution" was to use only .38 Special ammunition in .357 revolvers. These loads were created to restore some stopping power while being the politically-correct .38 Special cartridge. Put them on GunBroker as "Rare police-only, treasury-load .38 Special ammunition" of some such description and see if there is interest.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
450 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
The ammunition may have collector value to ammunition collectors. As I recall, some far left jurisdictions forbade the use of .357 Magnum revolvers as "too powerful," so the "solution" was to use only .38 Special ammunition in .357 revolvers. These loads were created to restore some stopping power while being the politically-correct .38 Special cartridge. Put them on GunBroker as "Rare police-only, treasury-load .38 Special ammunition" of some such description and see if there is interest.
Thanks I may just do that..................I think with it being +P+ as stated, I don't think I need to just "shoot it at my range"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,540 Posts
Can we see some pictures of the ammo, both in and out of the original boxes.

I'm not from the "show me state"...but I do like old ammo.

I do have a few boxes of .45 ACP from my Grandfathers basement...made at the Frankford Arsenal...where my Mom worked as a teenager.







The Lot #'s were usually the month/year of manufacture.

The box below shows the Frankford Arsenal head stamp for 1943...



.
 

·
*** ColtForum MVP ***
Joined
·
14,884 Posts
Note that the Officer's Model Match and the other Colt "E" frame revolvers were never built for use with hot ammo like the +P+.

The frames and cylinders are the same SIZE as the "I" frames like the 357 Model and the Python, but the breech faces of the "E" frames are not as strong, and neither the frame or cylinders were heat treated to sustain the +P+ or Magnum level loads.

Due to the unknown level that LE-only +P+ ammo was loaded to you could do serious damage to an "E" frame model.

Whether you have an original "AA" frame King Cobra or the new King Cobra, those are good to go with +P+ ammo since they were built to take full charge .357 Magnum ammo.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
450 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Note that the Officer's Model Match and the other Colt "E" frame revolvers were never built for use with hot ammo like the +P+.

The frames and cylinders are the same SIZE as the "I" frames like the 357 Model and the Python, but the breech faces of the "E" frames are not as strong, and neither the frame or cylinders were heat treated to sustain the +P+ or Magnum level loads.

Due to the unknown level that LE-only +P+ ammo was loaded to you could do serious damage to an "E" frame model.
Thank you. This ammo WILL remain in the safe................
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,778 Posts
The federal ammo shown is marked Plus P. It clearly states not to use in alloy frame guns, it should be fine in a steel frame gun. I have some federal empty cases that are clearly marked plus P plus. Snidely‘s winchester ammo is marked plus P plus with its warning.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
239 Posts
well my colt book a century of achievement says the officers model will shoot 38 regular or high speed,whatever high speed is.
That old "high speed" ammo was loaded pretty hot, and before ww2 Colt advertised that the "high speed" ammo was safe to use in the Colt official police revolvers. Of course the simple solution is to buy a Python or a Colt 357 than you have no worries.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
450 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
That old "high speed" ammo was loaded pretty hot, and before ww2 Colt advertised that the "high speed" ammo was safe to use in the Colt official police revolvers. Of course the simple solution is to buy a Python or a Colt 357 than you have no worries.
Thanks, I have a Python and King Cobra.........decision is not to shoot it in the Officers Model.
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top