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Fugate Firearms of Gilbertsville, KY, recently alerted me to the availability of a New-in-Box (NIB) second-generation Colt 1860 Army (Model F1200). Among second-gen collectors and traders, NIB is clearly defined as in “absolutely mint” condition (See Dennis Russell’s Percussion Colt Revolvers—The Second Generation: Collector’s Handbook & Price Guide, p. 56). I wrote to confirm the condition and received the following written response from Matt Fugate: “Why would I list it as NIB if it is not?” The superficial external examination permitted by Fugate’s no-firing / no-disassembly policy revealed no significant discrepancies. However, when I removed the cylinder as part of my customary “Safe Queen” preparation (which includes waxing all metal surfaces), I discovered that the nipple under the hammer was completely rusted shut and the entire rear of the underlying chamber was filled with a plug of rust, possibly a quarter inch deep. Fugate Firearms was notified within their three-day inspection period but refuses to accept return of the piece, citing their no-disassembly policy. They dismiss the fact that the defect, which renders completely inoperable a piece that was both presented and reaffirmed in writing to be “factory mint,” could not be detected without disassembly. I note a similar account on RipoffReport.com.
 

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The OP brings up valid concerns. So is a firearm checked externally & internally before being designated NIB? I could never understand the NIB designation because something old isn't new; maybe LNIB. If I paid big $$$$ for a NIB handgun I would not expect rust. So the reason NIB should be rust wasn't there prior to shipping? Or maybe overlooked/oversight? Or? In any event the Sellers policy is clear - good luck.
 

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I know John and Matt real well and they are standup guys. I don't think this is the proper way to handle this unless your goal is to attempt to damage their reputation.
I agree 100% - I know that I have a 'FULL MONEY BACK GUARANTEE' on all of my firearms, but if someone disassembled the gun, I would have a problem w/ them returning it.
 

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I'm sure they'll do the right thing, any smart business men would.....best of luck & I hope this has a happy ending for ya! This is of course your side only, as we know all stories have two and we haven't heard theirs!
 

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I am not condoning or condemning the post and John has always been very professional and helpful to me, but if as the OP says is true and he has exhausted every others means at his disposal what would his other options be? There have been other instances posted on this site about other sellers.

Op, I would suggest putting up some quality pictures and some backup to prove your point. John is a long standing member with an impeccable reputation so this is a serious accusation. I would not post the original emails, just the condensed version.

I am not picking sides but have a hard time believing that John would screw someone over. I am sure he will be along to tell his side and think he deserves that opportunity.

I know John and Matt real well and they are standup guys. I don't think this is the proper way to handle this unless your goal is to attempt to damage their reputation.
 

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hfrank: yours is a well-written post and, under the circumstances, admirably restrained. I think I would've been pretty angry if something like that happened to me. You were right to bring it up. The Fugates have a good reputation on this forum so I'm sure the matter will be settled fairly.
 

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There have been other instances posted on this site about other sellers.

Absolutely correct! How often do we see Joe The Average Seller at gun broker criticized and piled on by forum members because people here think their price it too high, uses the word "rare" too often, has poor spelling, no return policy, etc., etc.? At least Mr. F is a forum member and has the opportunity to respond if he so chooses, whereas Joe The Average Seller gets raked through the coals without even knowing it or being here to defend/explain themselves.

I'm not taking sides here, but forum members should be held to the same and even a higher standard than Joe Average.

John Gross
 

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Well I have never understood the "3 day no disassembly " inspection period.......

That's like buying a used car but not being able to check the oil or brakes first.....

I am sure things will work out...this isn't fun on either end....RR
 

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Well I have never understood the "3 day no disassembly " inspection period.......

That's like buying a used car but not being able to check the oil or brakes first.....

I am sure things will work out...this isn't fun on either end....RR
Used? The gun was new. It would be like buying a new car taking it home and pulling the heads and cam shaft, then telling the dealer you would like to return it. I would think you of all people would understand the standard return policy.
 

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Used? The gun was new. It would be like buying a new car taking it home and pulling the heads and cam shaft, then telling the dealer you would like to return it. I would think you of all people would understand the standard return policy.
Pulling the heads, etc, IMHO, would be more like removing side plates and going thru the internals. Removing a cylinder more like carefully opening the hood to look around.
 

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This is the most ridiculous argument I have ever heard. If something is found to be defective after being pulled apart it does not give someone a "get out of jail free card". If condition is contrary to description it is contrary to description, period. All sellers are responsible for the description they give for an item and it's accuracy.

I seem to recall you had an issue with a box that was not as advertised not long ago. I believe John can defend himself on this matter, if it even needs defending. Blustering about hiding behind a clause as an excuse not to do the right thing is not going to win you new buyers or favorable exposure on this site I fear.
Bottom line:

The no fire / no disassembly return policy is clearly stated on their website. Period.
 
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