How did this .22 start out?

3129 Views 21 Replies 12 Participants Last post by gazelle, Apr 27, 2014

gazelle

Discussion Starter · Aug 28, 2013

I know I have to get a letter. Here, I am just hoping to get some context from some wise old heads.

I wanted a converted .22, so I bought this. It was probably converted shortly after 1960. It’s got a 3 digit serial, probably from the .44 rimfire range. All numbers match except for the barrel and cyl. It’s a rimfire frame – no recoil shield. Barrel is done lightweight in a style that was available for a while from a couple well known smiths, Alonzo Crull and Tommy Haas. I think Haas did this .22

2 line address, but dancing pony, and no .44 cal markings on the TG. I am not well versed in the early SAA, but this flies in the face of how I understand a say 1878 .44 RF should be marked. What are the possible explanations?

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BobWright

· #2 · Aug 28, 2013

I have no idea how it might have started up, but it sure did end up a thing of beauty and a joy to hold, I'm sure!

Bob Wright

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chaosrob

· #3 · Aug 28, 2013

Very nice pistol, regardless of how it started I am sure you are very proud to own it in it's current configuration

gazelle

Discussion Starter · #4 · Aug 28, 2013

Thanks guys. One of my questions is, knowing that Haas was one of the great restorers, does that dancing pony look original? or do you figure it was put on sort of as an artistic flourish when it was made into a .22

Or, was this thing held back at Colt, to be released as a .22 after the dancing pony started being used? But rebarreled with the lightweight barrel in the 20th century?

Cylinder is not sleeved by the way. It is a .22 SAA cylinder.

Joe A.

· #5 · Aug 28, 2013

Did 3 digit serial numbered single actions have a circled pony?

It is a nice looking revolver.

gazelle

Discussion Starter · #6 · Aug 28, 2013 (Edited)

Joe A. said:
Did 3 digit serial numbered single actions have a circled pony?

No, it shouldn’t. This gets to the heart of my question. I think my guess that this was a .44 RF to start is a decent assumption. .44 RF are generally understood to have had a run from 1875 – 1881, something like that.

On SAA rampant Colt logo was used as follows:

a: not used from 1873-1890.
b: used in a circle 1890-1912.
c: used not circled 1912-1940.

So how does a frame that predated the pony logo get the logo?

The possibilities should be (I think..):

1 – the piece stayed in inventory until it was reworked as a .22 after 1890, and sold by Colt. They put the pony on during rework, but its essentially an original marking.
2 – the piece was sent back to Colt after 1890, and they converted it to .22 and put the pony on then. Later, a good gunsmith merely rebarreled it in the 20[SUP]th[/SUP] century.
3 – It was converted in the 20[SUP]th[/SUP] century and the gunsmith put the pony on (think Haas, who was capable of putting the pony on).

From those who have insight, I want to know whats most likely. I will get a letter.

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Jim Martin

· #7 · Aug 28, 2013

gazelle said:
No, it shouldn’t. This gets to the heart of my question. I think my guess that this was a .44 RF to start is a decent assumption. .44 RF are generally understood to have had a run from 1875 – 1881, something like that.

On SAA rocking horse logo was used as follows:

a: not used from 1873-1890.
b: used in a circle 1890-1912.
c: used not circled 1912-1940.

So how does a frame that predated the pony logo get the logo?

The possibilities should be (I think..):

1 – the piece stayed in inventory until it was reworked as a .22 after 1890, and sold by Colt. They put the pony on as essentially an original marking.
2 – the piece was sent back to Colt after 1890, and they converted it to .22 and put the pony on. Then, a good gunsmith merely rebarreled it in the 20[SUP]th[/SUP] century.
3 – It was converted in the 20[SUP]th[/SUP] century and the gunsmith put the pony on (think Haas, who was capable of putting the pony on).

From those who have insight, I want to know whats most likely. I will get a letter.

Correction on the term "rocking horse" logo,the pony w/the circle around it is not the RH logo,the RH logo wasn't used until the 1st part of 1913 then dis-continued mid year & replaced w/just the rearing pony.The RH logo shows the pony rearing w/a cradle under the left rear hoof just like you'd see under a rocking chair & no circle around it,somewhere on this site there's a picture of that logo on one of my guns.These Colts are very scarce,I know of only maybe 10 or 12 people that own one of them,I'm sure if you know how to search for it on here you'll be able to find it & see the difference between it & the one w/the circle around it.

gazelle

Discussion Starter · #8 · Aug 28, 2013

got it - prancing horse maybe

johngross

· #9 · Aug 28, 2013

gazelle said:
got it - prancing horse maybe

Actually, it's what collectors as well as the Colt company refer to as a Rampant Colt. The founder of the company was Samuel Colt, not Samuel Horse. And Rampant is more manly than dancing

John Gross

Reactions: 2

gazelle

Discussion Starter · #10 · Aug 28, 2013 (Edited)

Good to know, I am eager to learn. I corrected the errant text in that post

LEO918

· #11 · Aug 28, 2013

Thanks John. The dancing pony thing was about to drive me crazy. Rampant Colt and nothing less.

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gazelle

Discussion Starter · #12 · Aug 28, 2013

I ordered the letter. Very preliminarily, Joe told me it left Hartford in 1877 as a .44.

gazelle

Discussion Starter · #13 · Aug 28, 2013

There’s a side conversation we could have about Crull’s. This is not a Crull. Tommy Haas did some .22s with the Crull style barrel and sights. Given the gold flourishes and lack of a Crull rollmark, I’m inclined to assert this was done by Haas.

gazelle

Discussion Starter · #14 · Aug 28, 2013

My request for insight is much narrower by now. I just want to know if that Rampant Colt looks right, and what era it might come from.

Rick

· #15 · Aug 28, 2013

My rimfire is serial #1509. Has 3 line patent dates. Shipped July, 1877.
I have a Flat Top Target that has the same circled Rampant Colt "standing on a rock." My gun is "out of range" for Flat Tops having a ship date of 1910 and a serial that shows 1902 manufacture. Mine of course, has the transverse pin. Curious that the Rampant Colt stamping seems identical.

Hopalong

· #16 · Aug 29, 2013

Gazelle, I think you have one of the coolest looking SAAs I've ever seen. I love the space gun look it gets from the barrel and front sight.

don62

· #17 · Aug 29, 2013

I agree, that is one good looking Colt.....

gazelle

Discussion Starter · #18 · Jan 28, 2014

I got my letter for this. I was hoping the destination would be more exotic, but even so it doesnt make it any less interesting.

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Monsai52

· #19 · Jan 29, 2014

gazelle said:
My request for insight is much narrower by now. I just want to know if that Rampant Colt looks right, and what era it might come from.

The patent dates and circled Rampant Colt are clearly re-stamped after the side of the frame and trigger guard were polished together. The side of the frame is perfectly free from rust pits, as opposed to the pitting on the front of the frame and cylinder. I have no idea what era the re-stamp would have occurred. Still and all a pretty cool looking SAA.

BTW, since the rim on a 44 rim fire is located further from the center of the chamber than the rim of a 22 rim fire, how did the smith that did the conversion accommodate the difference. It would be really interesting to see some more photos.

Best regards,

gazelle

Discussion Starter · #20 · Jan 29, 2014

I appreciate this insight. Thanks.

Not sure. Having seen a couple other rimfires, my sense was the original hammer was used on this, and its not obvious to me how it is modified. Looks as it should.

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