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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
idiotscratch.jpg 1968 box 38 super.jpg i find myself paying up-to a $100-$200 more for an un-Idiot marked pistol. it kills me! just want your opinion on the price between the two...can you guys list pics of the king of idiot marks ever found on one of your pistols... i may cry, like a horror movie...
 

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While the take down scratch (I hate to call it an idiot scratch because many of them occured while in service of our country by some of our bravest... they had other things to worry about!) can be offensive, it is so common on military pistols it is really normal. For a commercial piece, well idiot scratch certainly applies!

With the above said, the pistol in the left photo (Springfield Armory M1911) is worth several times more than the pistol on the right - assuming both are all original. So, I guess for me anyway, a military pistol does not take a value hit with the take down scratch. I also have the opinion that a commercial pistol has no real (good) reason to not be in 98%+ condition - they were not heavily used by our troops.
 

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While the take down scratch (I hate to call it an idiot scratch because many of them occured while in service of our country by some of our bravest... they had other things to worry about!) can be offensive, it is so common on military pistols it is really normal. For a commercial piece, well idiot scratch certainly applies!
Rob,

I have basicly said the same thing for years, except I call it a GI scratch.... since GI's were trained to drag the slide stop on the frame for a fast, positive, re-assembly snap.... especially while occupying a foxhole.....

BG
 

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Too many time we forget the intended purpose of the weapon & the ones using them had much more to worry about than a scratch on a sidearm.
 
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There might be a lot of WWII, Korean War, Vietnam war veterans that now have to go to a tattoo parlor and see what font they want their "I" done in. First and foremost they were a tool for fighting and hopefully saving lives. My dad is a WWII vet and I seriously think that when he was in Italy during the war, in a foxhole, that the last thing to ever go through his mind was, "Gee whiz, in 50-60 years this .45 of mine is going to be a collectors item, so I had better make sure nothing happens to it, or I get a scratch on it, ESPECIALLY while reassembling it, because someone might label me an idiot." Tell me that everyone who refers to it as an idiot scratch, has kept every firearm they own in pristine condition, so as to preserve its value as a collectible. You know, no "idiot" scratches from carrying their rifle on a hunting trip, no "idiot" scratches from laying a weapon down on a not too clean or pristine surface.
I have never understood the mentality of applying today's values, retroactively, to deeds done decades ago. Why aren't people who threw away the boxes that held 1st gen. Colt SAA called names? How about those who bought Pythons in the late 50's, and then had the gall to actually shoot them, causing a turn ring, and maybe even putting them in a holster and causing some blue wear! Do you realize how much that devalues their worth?
My dad carried a Colt Cobra, and then Colt Agent during his 22 year tenure with the Federal Bureau of Narcotics, later the BNDD, and eventually, after he retired what became the DEA. They were new when he got them, but well worn when he turned them back in. So, if it will make some of you feel better, I will go and see him tomorrow and let him know what an idiot he is for the way he mistreated his issue weapons during WWII and later as a federal agent.
Sorry for the rant, but seriously, anyone that does something that you don't find acceptable, or that was perfectly acceptable when it was done, is now an idiot? Unbelievable.
 

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Most of these 'scratches' I have seen, were not done during WWI or WWII or The Korean Police Action.

They were usually still quite 'bright', and done recently, by someone at a Kitchen Table or Gunshow or Pawnshop or Gunstore or whatever, not by some WWI or WWI GI field stripping it 'in a fox hole'.

Not that I myself ever got heavy about it...I never have.

But, just sayin'...
 

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I have stopped being offended by what people call it, but gently remind them WHO was using the pistol originally, and what was going on at that time. "Take Down scratch", "GI scratch" or whatever are all very descriptive and respectful of the service of the men and women who used these weapons to stay alive. I fully believe that noone intends to be inflamatory to anyone who puts their life on the line for others. I believe the phrase "idiot mark" is simply a poor attempt at humor while being descriptive at the same time.

I will typically only start calling the scratch an 'idiot mark' when the person didn't know how the gun is taken down, and resorted to a hammer or other equally inappropriate tool to bash out the slide stop pin because they don't know enough to line up the notch!
 

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View attachment 23518 View attachment 23517 i find myself paying up-to a $100-$200 more for an un-Idiot marked pistol. it kills me! just want your opinion on the price between the two...can you guys list pics of the king of idiot marks ever found on one of your pistols... i may cry, like a horror movie...
It just depends on the particular 1911. Sometimes this marks makes little difference in a gun value or it could mean thousands difference. Example A 99% 80 series government vs a 99% Pre War .38 Supermatch, what does a takedown mark do to each of these guns, value wise. How does this mark effect each these guns differently ? Sometimes its not a big deal and sometimes it is.

John Fugate
 

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Well, I guess if your in the market for a pristine LNIB Gov't model or 1911 then you have to pay more. Supply and demand. Is a pistol with the scratch LNIB? No.

Do I own several with the scratch? Yes. Do I think less of them for it? No.

In fact, a pristine 1911A1 from WWII means less to me than one with battle scars. It has no history.

As always JMHO
 

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I call it the takedown scratch being unaware of how or who originally put it there. Many 1911's and their later year reproductions or platforms (for the purest who knows the last 1911 was in 194something :) ) were bought or used by folks who had NEVER disassembled this pistol before and once they got into it, scratched it did. A pristine example will naturally value higher but 2 of the exact year and model and wear, one with and one without the takedown, wouldn't be a large difference, IMHO.
 

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IMO. If I was buying, I'd subtract 10% from the correct price of one without the mark.

I've field stripped, cleaned and lubricated a Colt 1911 about 200 times until this happened. I was just not paying attention to what I was doing. It slipped. :bang_wall:



It wasn't my first bonehead move: ;)

I once forgot to set the parking brake on a car that I had just dropped "full coverage" insurance on. It rolled down the driveway and crashed on top of my mailbox.
I also once loaned $1000 to an old friend with a sob story. :rolleyes:
 

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It's a gun, it's a tool, it's made to be used, and when you use a tool it gets worn and scratched. I have several weapons that if perfect would be worth far more than they are in their current condition BUT, I shoot my guns and I let other people shoot my guns. It gives me no greater pleasure to watch the smile on a young G. I. or Police Officers face when they shoot an M-1, 03, or M-1 carbine, 1911, 1911-A1, Colt Python, Cobra, Trooper, Dick Special, or Hi-Power for the first time.
 

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"No scratch" is worth about 5% to 10% more depending on the rarity of the gun itself. On a beater, who cares? On a NIB 1st year National Match, it matters!
 

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I saw a photo a while back of the 1910 that John M. Browning himself used as the prototype for the final modifications to what became the 1911. It had a takedown scratch, likely put there by the master himself. If it didn't bother JMB, it don't bother me.
 

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Now, remember the word "sarcasm", but I can see a new desk plaque for Mr. Browning.... John M. Browning Firearms Design Genius and Idiot.
 

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I bet the big slip happens to most evryone at some time. And if it hasn't yet it is always lurking there waiting to happen. It does make you feel real bad though for quite some time.
Larry
 
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