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I handled a New Colt Government Double Action only 45 ACP today, It felt like a Government Series, but weird, as the Grip safety is deactivated and the Stock panels are flat and no safety. Series 80 frame and internals, but uses standard 1911 magazines. Trigger pull was tolerable, but it looked weird. Does any one have one ? Do you like them ? :confused:
 

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Funny reading this post after talking to Tom Stathes just a few minutes earlier. He and Stan Walenza built the bulk of 1911 DA Seecamp pistol conversions in the mid seventies, then later the TSW double action 1911 conversions. I can see how you describe it as weird as it is a hybrid DA design. They take some getting use to but the gunsmithing is straightforward using a transfer bar and a spring so the first trigger pull is double action and heavy. Once cocked the trigger pull should be similar to the standard 1911 pull weigh and break.

The Double Eagle really never caught on but the DA you held should be similar to the New Agent, a good gun for concealed carry. The pistol would be carried condition 3. This eliminates the need to carry condition one cocked and locked. Other than the heavy transfer bar double action first shot pretty much a 1911.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Funny reading this post after talking to Tom Stathes just a few minutes earlier. He and Stan Walenza built the bulk of 1911 DA Seecamp pistol conversions in the mid seventies, then later the TSW double action 1911 conversions. I can see how you describe it as weird as it is a hybrid DA design. They take some getting use to but the gunsmithing is straightforward using a transfer bar and a spring so the first trigger pull is double action and heavy. Once cocked the trigger pull should be similar to the standard 1911 pull weigh and break.

The Double Eagle really never caught on but the DA you held should be similar to the New Agent, a good gun for concealed carry. The pistol would be carried condition 3. This eliminates the need to carry condition one cocked and locked. Other than the heavy transfer bar double action first shot pretty much a 1911.

Yeah every shot is Double Action, No Pre-Staging.
 

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Yeah every shot is Double Action, No Pre-Staging.
Really? I wouldn't count that as a plus. The Seecamps/TSW's could function as a 1911 if the DA parts broke just by cocking the hammer. I can't wait until I get my hands on one ... maybe we can convert it!
 

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Sounds horrid...

How could this be a 'Step Up' from the original m1911/Gov't Model, and the safe, appealing, practical alacrity of Condition 1? and 'SA'?
 

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I kind of hate to say it ( well, actually, I lied, it is delicious TO say, ) but...the original configuration, the original 1911/Gov't Mdl, as they were from the get go up to the change to the "A-1" configuration...the original configuration, to me, seems perfect, unsurpassable, and, had nothing anyone could add and nothing to take away without detracting from it.

I wish Colt would just make an Honest-to-God, 'plain' m1911 or as it were, Gov't Model, and make it egg-zactly like they had. Offer it in a choice of finishes just like the choice of finishes were before WWI, and, they could even add a few more finish options to boot if they wanted.

I might even run off with the rent money, and buy one, if they did.
 

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Sounds horrid...

How could this be a 'Step Up' from the original m1911/Gov't Model, and the safe, appealing, practical alacrity of Condition 1? and 'SA'?
Well said, why mess with 100 years of perfection. IMHO frankly anyone afraid to carry Condition 1 should get a revolver. Been doing it 50 years.
 

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In all honesty, I feel safer and less at risk of an accidental discharge with a Condition One 1911 than I do with a standard trigger "safe action" Glock.
 

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The demand for a pistol like this has long passed. Back in the 1980's and early 1990's I could see Colt selling a lot of pistols like this to cops who wanted a .45 but without the headaches of carrying cocked n' locked. But now if somebody wants a trigger-cocking .45 they have Glocks, XD's, M&P's, and even the old but excellent SIG P220 (now with a tac rail!) if they truly wish to go old school. The double-action Colt 1991 is a pistol looking for a market, and it certianly won't win any beauty contests either. I think most people buying one are collectors just waiting for it to fall off the planet like the Double Eagle did. In the meantime, Colt is wasting precious production hours not making more of the guns we all really want, like more Series 70's and Combat Elites.
 

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Seecamp was the driving force in the 1911 conversions in the seventies. Having the opportunity to know and talk to Tom Stathes and Stan Walenza they'll be the first to tell you that the demand for the converted 1911 pistols came primarily from officers working for law enforcement agencies that required or were soon to require DAO. The competition at the time was coming from the S&W Model 59's. A lot of non LEO's purchased them because of their popularity or novelty. Tom built the Detonics but they never got a foothold in the market.

Thinking back, Colt did the same thing with the Mid Range bullseye guns. Taking the popularity of the .38 WC guns built by Giles and Clark and making it a production item.
 

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After careful review of the firearm I noticed that the stock panels had a striking resemblance to something CZ might put out. I am still waiting to see if anyone owns or has shot one of these. Mostly curiosity as I couldn't see dropping a $1,000.00 on this duckling.
 

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How does it compare to a Para LDA?
 

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After careful review of the firearm I noticed that the stock panels had a striking resemblance to something CZ might put out. I am still waiting to see if anyone owns or has shot one of these. Mostly curiosity as I couldn't see dropping a $1,000.00 on this duckling.
Colt had the joint venture with CZ a while back that produced the Z40, a small DAO built on the 1911 platform in .40 caliber. It was aimed at the LEO market in the US and I don't recall what caused its demise.
 

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I handled a New Colt Government Double Action only 45 ACP today, It felt like a Government Series, but weird, as the Grip safety is deactivated and the Stock panels are flat and no safety. Series 80 frame and internals, but uses standard 1911 magazines. Trigger pull was tolerable, but it looked weird. Does any one have one ? Do you like them ? :confused:
Why make a 1911 that is not a 1911? Go design a different semi-auto all together if they want that market, but don't pretend it's a 1911. Has none of the advantages of a 1911.

If I want to shoot a DA gun I'll take out my Colt Detective, Colt Cobra 38 or Colt Python.

When I put on my Colt 1911 that's why I put it on. I want to carry a 1911.
 

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Colt had the joint venture with CZ a while back that produced the Z40, a small DAO built on the 1911 platform in .40 caliber. It was aimed at the LEO market in the US and I don't recall what caused its demise.
People didn't like it..

Unfortunately in this day and age the lawyers and "feel gooders" have put us here. Us old schoolers who understand fully the safety features of the Gov't model, and the fact that it survived safely in the hands of GI's for years, don't understand the need for a change. You know the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" mentality.

Saddly, in my opinion, we "old schoolers" are not the big market we once were. Good luck to you Colt in this endeavor. A new model for a new market is a huge undertaking.
 

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How does it compare to a Para LDA?
It does not. The LDA trigger is an adaptation of the old German Stahl (I think it is) design that uses a two-piece hammer. The hammer is cocked, then the upper portion that strikes the firing pin is lowered to rest. The lower portion is still under spring tension, held by the sear. When ready to fire the LDA, pulling the trigger raises the hammer back to firing position and releases the sear, allowing the hammer to be driven forward to strike the firing pin. The trigger pull is light, like a single-action pull, since it does not have to raise the hammer against the main spring tension. In the Stahl system, shifting the safety off raises the hammer for the same purpose.

The Colt Double Action is just like other "double-action-only" semi-automatics. Every trigger-pull is long and heavy, like a double-action-only revolver. There are a lot of semi-automatics with that style of trigger, so there will be a small niche for the Colt version, but it will be a novelty only. Now that Para-Ordnance has, for some reason, abandoned the feature that put Para on the map, the double-stack .45 magazine, Colt should adopt that feature. (Para has also abandoned the LDA trigger, which shows that the original 1911-design is still the major force in the traditional .45ACP pistol market.) All of the "modern" .45ACP service pistols have have a magazine capacity higher than seven or eight, with ten being the minimum. The FNH FNC .45ACP has a fifteen-round magazine, The Glock Model 20 has a thirteen-round magazine, the H-K USP .45ACP has a twelve-round magazine, the Smith & Wesson .45ACP M&P has a ten-round magazine, etc..

When I saw the double-stack Para conversion frames at an early SHOT Show where they were introduced, I Immediately wrote Colt and urged that Colt buy the rights to the design. It did not of course. Had Colt done so, Para would not exist, Colt would hold the market share that Para holds. and would not be just a niche maker (assuming that Colt would have expanded its models like Para and Kimber have done). Oh well.
 

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I assume this is in search of those LE agencies which still have specific "double action" requirements. If there are big agencies looking for DA, big bore and all steel it might be a good contender. WVSP recently went back the 4566TSW again, so they are out there. My understanding is that S&W tried hard to get WVSP to convert (as did Glock) and that S&W very reluctantly retooled to make them.
 
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