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Discussion Starter #1
Is a C&R license more trouble than it\'s worth?

I purchase about 12 guns and sell about 6 guns annually. Would I receive any benefit by obtaining a C&R license? Is it just too much hassle? I pay my FFL dealer $20 per each visit. If I group them up I save money. In the next several days I'll pickup 3 guns in one visit and the cost will be a total of $20. Where as 3 seperate visits would cost $60. I look forward to the feedback.
 

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Re: Is a C&R license more trouble than it\'s worth?

Addict, I believe the C&R FFL has remains at thirty bucks per year, so you would generate a cost savings almost immediately. There is also the obvious convenience of having the firearms delivered to your door. The real question only you can answer is, what is your level of personal paranoia in dealing with a possible ATF compliance visit (whice might never happen), keeping aquisition and disposition records etc. For me, I was not worth it. I dropped mine when William Jefferson was elected.
 

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Re: Is a C&R license more trouble than it\'s worth?

Addicted:
The Curio and Relic license is $30 for three years. To qualify for the C&R list, a firearm must meet one of several criteria, such as being at least 50 years old.
Whether such a license is worthwhile depends upon what kind of firearms hold your interest.
JT
 

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Re: Is a C&R license more trouble than it\'s worth?

For me it was well worth it! Like you I was paying $20.00 a pop. I am interested in pre 1945 Colts and Smiths so it was worth my time and efforts. $30.00 for 3 years is a bargain. The bound book is not a hassle. Do like I did and make it yourself from a looseleaf binder. I think you can download the forms from cuffler.com
 

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Re: Is a C&R license more trouble than it\'s worth?

If you order anything from Brownell's, you will easily recoup your $30 in three years. If you send them your C&R FFL, you get their "dealer" pricing. Not all items are discounted (especially Brownell gunsmithing tools), but many items are and it can add up quickly. I believe Midway offers a similar deal.
 

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Re: Is a C&R license more trouble than it\'s worth?

Yes, Midway offers a dealer discount. And the previous poster made an excellent point about the unquantifiable but valid issue of personal paranoia.
 

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Re: Is a C&R license more trouble than it\'s worth?

Lets not ignore the obvious benefit of buying collector handguns out of state without the hassle of transferring it through a FFL. Thought about getting one many times and keep going back to the fact that I don't buy enough handguns to make it worth the hassle. Addicted, in your case it would probably be a good move for you personally.
 

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Re: Is a C&R license more trouble than it\'s worth?

[ QUOTE ]
Lets not ignore the obvious benefit of buying collector handguns out of state without the hassle of transferring it through a FFL. Thought about getting one many times and keep going back to the fact that I don't buy enough handguns to make it worth the hassle. Addicted, in your case it would probably be a good move for you personally.

[/ QUOTE ]

At the Tulsa gun show I concluded that I am putting in for a C&R. Two of my purchased guns were dealer transfers. I had to hunt down Kansas FFL dealers so I could bring them home. It took 3 hours to make all this happen.

I found a guy with a C&R application. I'm filling it out and sending it in. No more hassle and I believe the other hassle I can deal with.

All, thanks for the input.
 

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Re: Is a C&R license more trouble than it\'s worth?

Addicted, the only trouble I have had is convincing certain dealers that a gun was C&R eligible (go figure). So be prepared for that, otherwise it is nice for mail order.
B.W.
 

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Re: Is a C&R license more trouble than it\'s worth?

I've heard you can have problems on resale of your guns.Just heard a problem,but not to clear on it.The C&R is suppose to be for collectors and if a gun is found in circulation too soon after a purchase by the C&R collector then that is what they frown on,,,but don't quote me.
Joe
 

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Re: Is a C&R license more trouble than it\'s worth?

[ QUOTE ]
Do like I did and make it yourself from a looseleaf binder.

[/ QUOTE ]

Be careful there, chief. I think "bound book" means the pages are attached permanently.

As far as selling- A C&R is supposed to be used to enhance your own collection not a sellers/dealers license. Some people take it to mean order three rifles, keep the pick of the litter and sell the other two to recoup. Is this bad? Dunno.

Addicted. I think it will work for you. Most, if not all, you pick up is older than 50 years and qualifies to be shipped directly to you.

Brian
 

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Re: Is a C&R license more trouble than it\'s worth?

Kevin
I talked to my friend who has a class 3 dealers license.He told me that you can not resale any guns you buy with the C&R license.This is like you can NEVER resell the gun,no if's and or buts.Maybe there is a clause that you can sell it to a FFL license holder.Anyway he told me it is a ten(10)year offense.This license is suppose to be for collectors only.It is like when you buy M1's through the CMP program.When you buy a M1 from CMP and don't want it no more you have to turn it back into them.Lots of people do resell CMP rifles but you're doing it at your own risk.Same way with the C&R guns,resell at your own risk and hope it dont go through 3 or 4 buyers and someday winds up in a murder or robbery and they see "Mr Kevin Addicted" use to own this,we need to talk to him,he was suppose to have it in a collection.

I'm just trying to keep you legal bud because we all have more to lose then the few extra dollars it takes to pay an FFL for shipping a gun across state lines.And if I'm wrong I'll glady accept it that my source told me wrong.
Joe
 

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Re: Is a C&R license more trouble than it\'s worth?

Well as a C&R license holder, I looked it up. Here is what ATF states regarding the sale of firearms for holders of a C&R. I hope this helps you with your decision.


ATF Instructions on disposition of C & R firearm:

178.125 "Each licensed collector shall enter into a record each receipt and disposition of firearms curios or relics. ...The sale or other dispostion of a curio or relic shall be recorded by the lecensed collector no later than 7 days following the date of such transaction. When such disposition is made to a licensee, the commerical record of the transaction shall be retained, until the transaction is recorded..." When to a non-licensee the seller should "show the date of the sale, name and address of person and the date of birth of the transferee if other than a licensee. In addition you must
1."cause the transferee, if other than a licensee, to be identified (drivers license) and note on the record the
method 2. Verify his identity in the state (para phrased this one) 3. Format required for the record is as follows: Manufacturere, Model, serial #, type, caliber, date, name and address. When dispossing of you need: Name and address, date of birth (of non-licensee), drivers license number

One last item. ATF in a letter last January states you cannot "engage in business" as an C&R holder and they define this as..."refers to a person or entity that devote time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a REGULAR COURSE OF TRADE OR BUSINESS WITH THE PRINCIPAL OBJECTIVE OF LIVELIHOOD AND PROFIT THROUGH THE REPETITIVE PURCHASE AND RESALE OF FIREARMS" (CAPITAL ADDED FOR EMPHASIS).
 

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Re: Is a C&R license more trouble than it\'s worth?

I have a C&R license.

Here's the facts:

It costs $30.00 for three years. You have to make out the application in duplicate, sending a copy to your local police chief. You also have to fill out and include with your application a form, provided by ATF, that relates to either IRS or US citizenship. I forget the actual purpose, other than the fact that they will return your application if you don't include it.

ATF sent out a bulletin a while back, earlier this year, stating the purpose of a C&R is to allow collectors to aqcquire firearms as specified, from OUT OF STATE. This means, you can't go to your local FFL and buy a gun using your C&R. You still have to comply with all firearms regulations as a private citizen, you are not a pseudo-dealer.

A bound book can be a loose leaf binder type book that holds pages, like the one you had in school. The big thing is to have the information spelled out in the manual ATF sends.

You can sell your guns, however ATF expects you to keep them for at least a year, I'm told. If you sell a gun that you bought with your C&R, make sure you have a good explaination why you got rid of it. In other words, don't expect to buy 2 of something, with the idea of selling one to pay for the other. ATF really doesn't like that.

You can get discounts from Brownells and Midway USA. This alone can pay for the license.

You can have C&R elegible handguns sent via USPS from a FFL to your home, but you may not send handguns to anyone via USPS. Only a FFL dealer may do that, and you're not a dealer.

Hope this helps.

I've had my C&R for almost two years and will renew it.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Re: Is a C&R license more trouble than it\'s worth?

I send back gun that do not meet my satisfaction? This is done within the first 3 days of arrival. Do I take legal possession of the gun upon it's arrival? Will it be frowned up by sending the gun back so soon when I have a legit reason as didn't meet buyer satisfaction?
 

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Re: Is a C&R license more trouble than it\'s worth?

During the 3 day inspection period, you are not committed to keep the gun. If you keep it, then, it's yours.

In spite of the fact you're dealing with government bureaucrats, there still has to be some common sense built into the system. They're just trying to prevent people from becoming C&R "dealers".
 

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Re: Is a C&R license more trouble than it\'s worth?

Now this is getting good,,a bit confuseing but interesting non-the-less.I'd like to be a bit more clarified,,,or speak in non legal terms.I got to keep my eyes on this thread.I'll ask some questions to you guys in a day or so if questions haven't been answered,,I,,like Kevin would like to have a gun delivered to my house also.I even been thinking of getting a regular FFL
Joe
 

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Re: Is a C&R license more trouble than it\'s worth?

i will add just a little, a c&r excludes you from the gca of 68 on guns that qualify. you may buy and sell as you like as long as you are not doing it as a business. if you buy a collector gun today and find a better example next week you would be justified in selling the first to aquire the second. of course your record book would be excellent evidence should you ever be questioned.should you decide to drop your lic. you do not have to turn in your records as an ffl does.as long as you are a collector, building or upgrading your collection. a c&r is a terrible bargain at 30$ per 3 yrs. it will save that on gas driving to the ffl.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Re: Is a C&R license more trouble than it\'s worth?

Will I have to claim (send records) of the guns I own before aquiring the C&R?
 

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Re: Is a C&R license more trouble than it\'s worth?

you only have to record data in your bound book for guns purchased on the c&r.just think of the ink you`ll save filling out those yellow sheets.
 
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