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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
pix270320709 (3).jpg Is she actually saying in this letter that all SAAs in that serial number range are long flutes? Or is she doing someone a favor who has a long flute that does not letter? Other long flutes I have checked say this, letter below. I am curious because my friend has an obviously original long flute .41 in this range but his factory letter does not say it is a long flute, and the letter makes no additional mention of long flutes in that serial number range.
H1193-L91144446 (2).jpg
 

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I don't have the answer .

If I recall correctly my letter is from 7-8 yrs ago .
 

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330463 has the "furnished with..." letter. I would get this corrected as I recently saw ( if I remember correctly!) a SAA in the serial range without a LF cylinder.
 

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I suspect that K. Hoyt is trying to relay the information that not all in that SN range were LF, but the Colt records may not be complete concerning SAA's with LF cylinders. Ergo, there may be some Colt SAA's in that SN range with LF cylinders that do not show up that way in the ledgers.
 

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330463 has the "furnished with..." letter. I would get this corrected as I recently saw ( if I remember correctly!) a SAA in the serial range without a LF cylinder.
Presumably, the non long fluted cylinder is correct, but are you sure it was not replaced with a period appropriate non long fluted cylinder?

They were sometimes switched. I sold a revolver dating from 1909 or 1910 once to a forum member that had a long flute cylinder. Presumably the long fluted cylinder on this revolver was not original to the gun but a later replacement, presumably from a firearm in the 330- or 331,000 range.

As serial numbers, or parts thereof, returned to cylinders circa 1912, do you recall if this one had the last 3 digits of the serial number on the cylinder?
 

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I believe I have seen letters written both ways. I will gladly stand corrected by one of our experts, but I was under the impression that all SAA's in that range were outfitted with Long Flutes, maybe with a very few exceptions? And I agree with St Clair's observation about the records!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I suspect that K. Hoyt is trying to relay the information that not all in that SN range were LF, but the Colt records may not be complete concerning SAA's with LF cylinders. Ergo, there may be some Colt SAA's in that SN range with LF cylinders that do not show up that way in the ledgers.
She does not say "some" or "all", so all that statement does is confuse the issue and cause collectors to use their own supposition. My friend may contact the archives and see if they will add that statement to his letter, as his long flute in that serial range does not letter as having the long flute cylinder. That added statement makes a big difference value wise. I have seen many long flute letters, and this is the only one I have seen with this added information.
 

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Is she actually saying in this letter that all SAAs in that serial number range are long flutes? YES.

Through the years some long flute cylinders have found their way into much earlier or later Colt SAA's, but they won't letter "with long flute cylinder".

This comment about the long flute cylinders being used in the serial range 330,000 to 331,479 is not found in the shipping ledger (where all of the factory letter info is extracted). Rather this comment is found in an assembly record book.
 

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victorio1sw, It would be nice to learn more about this 'assembly record book.' I hope that you can convince Paul or Beverly at Colt Archives to validate your assertion.
 

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victorio1sw, It would be nice to learn more about this 'assembly record book.' I hope that you can convince Paul or Beverly at Colt Archives to validate your assertion.
I have. Somewhere in this forum Paul has confirmed that this "Long Flute" serial number range statement is in the assembly record book.

I also have some old copies of some pages from Colt's Shipping Ledgers. They probably won't provide such copies anymore. Attached is part of one page, where I own #331184 as shipped to one "H. Murphy" on Nov 30, 1914. Notice that the serial numbers range from 299634 to 331230. There is no way that a statement like "The Following Serial Numbers 330,000 to 331479" can be made here. And this "Long Flute Project" strung out over three years time.
 

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victorio1sw, It would be nice to learn more about this 'assembly record book.' I hope that you can convince Paul or Beverly at Colt Archives to validate your assertion.
Unlike the Shipping Ledger, the the Assembly Record book is in serial number order. Thus a statement like "The Following Serial Numbers...." would have to be made within the Assembly Record.
 

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victorio1sw, It would be nice to learn more about this 'assembly record book.' I hope that you can convince Paul or Beverly at Colt Archives to validate your assertion.

Originally Posted by victorio1sw
Paul,

I have one general question about the Colt SAA Long Flute production. It has been said that there is an entry which reads something like "The following 1480 guns were equipped with Long Flute Cylinders". That entry cannot be in the Shipping Ledgers, as we all know how scattered those serial numbers are. I am guessing that some form of Production or Assembly Ledger contains this comment, where serial numbers may be kept in consecutive order. Is this correct?

Many Thanks in advance for your reply!

victorio1sw

Correct- the production records indicate a specific serial number range of SAA's equipped with the DA / Long Flute cylinders.


https://www.coltforum.com/forums/lounge/86396-colt-archives-55.html
 

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If all 1480 guns with the DA long flute cylinders are together in one serial range, perhaps it was considered the default configuration and not a special feature. Letters for late 1930s Model O pistols don't always list the "New Safety Device" aka Swartz safety as a special feature even though it's clearly evident.
 

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If all 1480 guns with the DA long flute cylinders are together in one serial range, perhaps it was considered the default configuration and not a special feature. Letters for late 1930s Model O pistols don't always list the "New Safety Device" aka Swartz safety as a special feature even though it's clearly evident.
One thing that is odd, and probably unique, about the long flute Colt SAA production is that the serial numbers were predetermined for the next 3 years! Evidently, Colt took an inventory of their surplus long flute M1878 cylinders and pulled 1480 for this project. By 1913 Colt could see what the remaining demand might be for replacement cylinders in the Colt M1878 DA, and had to leave the estimated future need in spare parts. And that left 1480 for the Colt SAA long flute project.

On this one page from the Shipping Ledger there are 30 guns in the long flute range. A total of 71 Colt SAA's are on this page, with the lowest serial number being 180164. This 180164 is one of a 3 gun shipment of 44/c, 4-3/4", Nickel, with the highest SN in the shipment being 329099.

It would be interesting to know if Colt discounted these long fluted Colt SAA's to prevent customers from thinking that these were a permanent change to the Colt SAA or something like factory seconds. I did notice that on this page from the Shipping Records that multiple gun orders were filled entirely with long flute or normal cylinders, probably to avoid customer complaints.
 

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victorio, Thanks for that referral to Paul's comment about the LF's!! That is valuable information!

I was just thinking that if I had been alive and was buying a SAA in the timeframe where the LF's were being built, probably the first thing I would have done if I had purchased one would have been to seek a replacement for that 'off-spec' long fluted cylinder. I suspect that quite a few people who 'got stuck with' SAA's with long fluted cylinders were not happy with them.
I wonder if many forum members have seen SAA's in the listed range for the 1480 SAA's with the LF cylinder that have had standard cylinders installed in them in order to make their guns look 'like they should.'
 

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victorio, Thanks for that referral to Paul's comment about the LF's!! That is valuable information!

I was just thinking that if I had been alive and was buying a SAA in the timeframe where the LF's were being built, probably the first thing I would have done if I had purchased one would have been to seek a replacement for that 'off-spec' long fluted cylinder. I suspect that quite a few people who 'got stuck with' SAA's with long fluted cylinders were not happy with them.
I wonder if many forum members have seen SAA's in the listed range for the 1480 SAA's with the LF cylinder that have had standard cylinders installed in them in order to make their guns look 'like they should.'
Almost 50 years ago I bought a 45 Colt SAA that was very low in the long flute range. However, as you mentioned here, a normal cylinder had been installed. A factory letter obtained later noted that this Colt was shipped to Phelps Dodge Mercantile at Douglass, AZ. It required about three years of searching, but I finally found an original 45 long flute Colt SAA cylinder to restore this neat pistol.

We all have probably seen such as a way out-of-range Colt SAA or Bisley with a long flute cylinder. Mike Clark had a Bisley in his shop about 15 years ago. Old-time collector Harry Knode wrote a GR article on a Bisley that he had found in the 1950's or 1960's. In the early 1970's I walked into a cafe in Falfurrias, TX and saw a DPS officer in the lobby wearing a long fluted 45 Bisley. He noticed my apparent interest in his pistol, and asked if I wanted to inspect it. I said something like "Wow, a Bisley with a long flute cylinder"! From what he said, I wasn't the first to notice that.
 
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