Last months American Rifleman had an article on these revolvers. Never knew they had a smaller grip than an Army/Navy 1909.

I passed up a US Navy marked 1909 a few years ago. Got my eye on a US Army model in good shape.

 

The 1909 Model did, but the original post is about a 1917 with dual markings.

 

I have seen several Colt M1917s marked with Property of USMC on the side plate. I have not seen S&W one. The marking have all looked the same and parkerized finish has been the same. One a couple of months ago sold for a little over $1900.00. The one you mentioned as been listed for along time because he is so over priced. My guess since they are parkerized is that the Corps picked them up after WWI and rebuild and refinished them for their purpose. I have not see one close enough to see if there are arsenal marks on them and I have no idea how many are out there. Maybe a Marine can let us know if they ever saw them in use when they were in the Corps.

 

The Marines didn't mark their weapons during this time frame. There were shipments of Model 1911 pistols directly to the USMC which were not marked, and they didn't mark their Model 1903 Springfield rifles.

Take a rough Model 1917, pantagraph USMC on it, and jack up the price.

 

"with the exception of a military police company in Paris, Marines were issued the semi-automatic pistols exclusively. Abandoning their .45 Colt M1909 Colt revolvers in 1912, the Corps eagerly adopted one of John M. Browning’s most enduring designs—and soon put it to good use."

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/7/31/guns-of-the-devil-dogs-us-marine-corps-small-arms-of-world-war-i/

 

"with the exception of a military police company in Paris, Marines were issued the semi-automatic pistols exclusively. Abandoning their .45 Colt M1909 Colt revolvers in 1912, the Corps eagerly adopted one of John M. Browning’s most enduring designs–and soon put it to good use."

The USMC only received 300 Model 1911 pistols in 1912, and another 1250 in 1913, so couldn't abandon their revolvers too quick.

 

Looks like someone’s basement job to me. The bad home-grown re-park job can be remedied, but Bubba ruined it with the ridiculous fake side plate stamping. A $500 shooter on a good day.

 

My Uncle Chase had one with USMC on the side plate. He was in the 3rd Marines during WWII.

 

The well-defined stamping is incongruous with the worn strikes of the horse & barrel markings, and in any event the documented Marines marked pieces were M1909’s v. M1917’s. I stand by my assessment; for every authenticated, documented, as-issued “collector’s dream” out there exist a dozen completely spurious collector’s nightmares. Been in the game long enough to examine both varietals.

 

There is a famous photo of a US Marine in the Pacific firing a S&W Model 1917 at a Japanese bunker.

I've always read that by in the years between the wars the Marines no longer marked their firearms.

 

They certainly never marked their 1911’s/a1’s, and no mention is made of marked M17’s in any texts of Colt or S&W.

 

He wants how much? All at once?

 

Never saw a 1917 Colt or S&W .45 revolver marked other than ''U.S. ARMY Model 1917''.

 

Like Elaine says; “Fake. Fake.Fake...”

 

So I contacted the seller on Gunbroker, and he sent me this link. Check the article on page 12.

http://www.marines.mil/Portals/59/Publications/Fortitudine Vol 29 No 2.pdf

 

OK, that was an additional marking on the sideplate. I'd bet it's still marked US Army on the butt.

 

Just because there is a picture of a Model 1917 that is USMC marked doesn't validate the Model 1917 offered for sale.

In Bady's Colt book he indicates that some Model 1911 pistols were marked MODEL OF 1911 U.S.M.C. which we all know was incorrect, but that didn't prevent the fakers from making USMC marked Model 1911 pistols and pointing to Body to authenticate them.

 

With the urgent need for arms during the Great War , which brought us the 1917 revolvers , there probably wasn't a priority to mark these handguns for each service. Not sure when the US Navy markings ended on 1911s. But during WWI , the USMC bills were still paid by the US Navy. And many USMC units were basically transferred to the control of the US Army. Actually , who's to say these pistols weren't transferred to and marked by the USMC post-war? The Corps always did get hand-me-downs.

 

Clawson, in his publication, superseded & completely torpedoed the old wive’s tale re: “United States Marine Corps” marked 1911’s. No one to date can validate legitimate, authentic, as-issued Corps stamped M-17’s.

 

As far as original factory 'butt' markings. Markings subsequently applied elsewhere by individual Marine Corps unit armorers are always possible.

 

Desron6 said, "No one to date can validate legitimate, authentic, as-issued Corps stamped M-17’s."

Are you denying the article in the link above regarding Marines guarding the mail in the 1920's using recycled 1917's? The organization that published that article seems to think they have a real museum piece. OK, it's not "as issued", since it was first issued to the army, but is it legitimate?

 

Museums have bought pieces that paid large sums for that turned out to be fake.

When Charles Clawson wrote his "big book" on the Colt Model 1911/1911A1 he wrote that the Model 1911A1 was still being finished in blue up into the 780,000 serial number range, which proved to be incorrect. A person that Mr. Clawson trusted their knowledge and judgement furnished the information that an original blued 1911A1 was in a military museum, but the pistol turned out to be refinished in blue. Museums are not always a source of unimpeachable information.

 

The seller says it boasts the "original parkerized finish" , except these pistols had a blued finish just like the 1911's produced during the same time period. The only two parts that don't look like they are refinished are the lanyard loop and the trigger. It may very well have been given to the Postal service in the 1920's and was then issued to the Marines who guarded the mail. The USMC property stamping was applied later and it has been parkerized after being stamped by the USMC at some point in it's career. The real question is who was it parkerized by, Uncle Sam or Uncle Bubba?

 

Lots of individuals/organizations believe they have real “museum pieces”. Was the revolver stamped after issue? Absolutely. Was it Uncle Sam? I vote Uncle Bubba; look how many fraudulent stamps for SAA’s are out there. Slap a USMC stamp on anything & it becomes a “museum piece”. Good luck to the seller getting anything near what he’s asking. It’s worth maybe 10% of that as a shooter.

 

Personally I'd doubt that the Marines used 1917 revolvers to guard the mail.
In the between the wars period the Marines had enough firearms to arm the Corp, and I've never seen a photo of a Marine guarding the mail with any pistol but a 1911 .45.

The Marines 3 man mail guards seemed carried 2 1903 rifles and a BAR, plus at least one man armed with a 1911.
I can't remember but possible one of the 3 might be armed with a 1897 Trench shotgun.
They had no need to borrow revolvers from the US Mail Service.

 

The Marines were known to augment their supply of small arms by either picking them up on the battlefields or using the "midnight requisitioning system" to get what they needed. Marines "appropriated" BAR's in late 1918 from the Army's 36th Division to replace the hated Chauchat, but were forced to give them back to the Army until they were finally issued them almost to the day of the wars armistice. And in 1942 many an unsuspecting Army soldier was relieved of his brand new M-1 Garand by Marines who were armed with 1903 Springfield's on Guadalcanal. It would not surprise me to find Marines in possession of Model 1917 revolvers, both Colt and Smith & Wesson, and mark them later as USMC "property". And yes, I have seen a Smith & Wesson model 1917 marked USMC property.

 

We have all seen one in the original post, but that in no way authenticates it. Or, if someone would realy love to have a USMC marked Model 1917 Colt, this is a good opportunity.

 

On Marines guarding the US Mail, contemporary photos show them armed with the M1911 pistol, shotguns and BARs. I have not detected the use of any Colt or S&W Model of 1917 revolvers in that role. It is certainly possible but I have not seen any photo evidence.

Of course, the US Post Office's use of the Model of 1917 revolvers is well documented, but here we are talking about Marine Corps weapons. I tend to doubt that the Marines would want to rely on the USPO to supply the Corps with any weapons.

The link to the 2001 Museum article was interesting but in my view not dispositive of the question about USMC-marked M1917 revolvers used by those guarding the mails. Careful reading of the article reveals that the two revolvers in the Marine Corps Museum at the time were both donated to the Museum in 2000 by a former Marine. There is no evidence cited that the former Marine was himself a mail guard. Figure that a 25 year old Marine in 1925 would be 100 years old in 2000. Not impossible but not likely either.

The article goes on to claim, rather inexplicably, that "The Army revolver has exceptional provenance that now give the Museum a 'real' tie to the Marines' mail-guard mission." Just what that "provenance" is remains unstated. I would not rely on that article to prove anything other than the fact that two revolvers were gifted by a former Marine in 2000.

One possibility is that the M1917 was marked after WW2, not beforehand. During that post-war period up until about 1960 or so there are many examples of small arms that were marked Marine Corps Property. Examples I know of include the Colt Woodsman pistols shipped in 1952 with factory USMC markings; Colt Officer's Model revolvers shipped to the Marines in the late '40s with post-factory property markings; and the Harrington & Richardson MC-58 .22LR rifles shipped in the '50s with factory applied property markings. There are other examples as well. The Marines seem to have gone through a phase of marking mania during that time frame. Thus, while the M1917 was obsolete by the end of WW2 I would not rule out the possibility of post-war marking.

One other small point occurs to me. The Gunbroker M1917 was marked PROPERTY OF USMC while the example shown in the Museum article was marked USMC PROPERTY. That may be of no significance but does demonstrate a certain lack of uniformity.

Regards,
Charlie

 

.....
Of course, the US Post Office's use of the Model of 1917 revolvers is well documented, but here we are talking about Marine Corps weapons. I tend to doubt that the Marines would want to rely on the USPO to supply the Corps with any weapons.
....

A side note:
One wouldn’t think so, but Marines carrying arms provided by another federal agency, rather than standard-issue Marine Corps weaponry, actually would not be unprecedented. For a long time, the Marine security guard detachments stationed at embassies abroad were armed with S&W Model 19 revolvers provided by the State Department.