[Sourdough Sam]

Hello-

I just picked up several modern SS magazines for my 1911. The baseplate is marked with the rampant Colt and "Colt 45. Auto"; in the upper right corner is stamped an "M". They look authentic and function fine.

My original Colt factory blue magazine that came with my 1991 has the same first two markings, but has a small-case "C" in the upper right corner.

I assume Colt contracts out their magazine production these days.T or F? Are these sub-contractor markings? And if so, can someone enlighten me as to what the "C" and the "M" stand for(Colt? Caspian? McCormick?MegGar?)???.

Thank you,

Regards,

Sourdough Sam

 

[WS23]

Sam, sorry I can't answer your question about the M versus C. But I can assure you that they are authentic.

 

[Ira Paine]

Sam,
Autos are not my thing but when I was shooting at Camp Perry all the M marked mags had Match mag lips, check the mag lips with standard 45 mags and you will see the difference. I would be willing to bet that M stands for Match. I've never seen an M marked mag that did not have Match lips.
I P

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sourdough Sam:
Hello-

I just picked up several modern SS magazines for my 1911. The baseplate is marked with the rampant Colt and "Colt 45. Auto"; in the upper right corner is stamped an "M". They look authentic and function fine.

My original Colt factory blue magazine that came with my 1991 has the same first two markings, but has a small-case "C" in the upper right corner.

I assume Colt contracts out their magazine production these days.T or F? Are these sub-contractor markings? And if so, can someone enlighten me as to what the "C" and the "M" stand for(Colt? Caspian? McCormick?MegGar?)???.

Thank you,

Regards,

Sourdough Sam<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



[This message has been edited by Ira Paine (edited 08-14-2004).]

 

[dfariswheel]

The stamps on the magazine floor plate are supposed to be maker ID stamps.
I "think" "C" stands for Colt, and "M" for either Metal Form, or Mec-gar.

I have Colt magazines stamped with
M
M and S
C
C and S
These are all standard Colt magazines.

I "think" the "S" stands for stainless, since I recall seeing nickel plated magazines stamped with a "N", and satin nickel with "SN".

DON'T hold me to the last, it's been a while.

I don't recall seeing a Colt factory "Match magazine", nor does, or has Colt ever listed one.

As far as I know, Colt has only made two types of magazine lips, the old, original parallel lips, and the newer tapered lips, no special factory Match lips.


[This message has been edited by dfariswheel (edited 08-14-2004).]

 

[Ira Paine]

Dfafiswheel,
As I've said, Autos are not my thing from a collecting standpoint but I did shoot a lot of them in competition, all of the Gold Cups I've owned, 5 of them, had the match type lips, and all of them had the M marking, if you check a standard Govt. Model and a Gold Cup from I think the mid to late 1960's and into the 1970's time period it's very easy to see the differance. The standard ones if new from the factory never seem to have the match lips, only the Gold Cups had them. Of course either mag would work in either gun.

The gunsmiths at Camp Perry used to modify the standard mag lips so that they were like the Gold Cup M or Match type lips. I know what the standard type lips look like and I know what the match type look like but what are tapered lips ?. I don't think I've ever seen that type and am sure from a shooting standpoint I've never heard that term used with 45 mags.
I P

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dfariswheel:
The stamps on the magazine floor plate are supposed to be maker ID stamps.
I "think" "C" stands for Colt, and "M" for either Metal Form, or Mec-gar.

I have Colt magazines stamped with
M
M and S
C
C and S
These are all standard Colt magazines.

I "think" the "S" stands for stainless, since I recall seeing nickel plated magazines stamped with a "N", and satin nickel with "SN".

DON'T hold me to the last, it's been a while.

I don't recall seeing a Colt factory "Match magazine", nor does, or has Colt ever listed one.

As far as I know, Colt has only made two types of magazine lips, the old, original parallel lips, and the newer tapered lips, no special factory Match lips.


[This message has been edited by dfariswheel (edited 08-14-2004).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

[dfariswheel]

Check Kuhnhausen's book on the 1911, pages 155 and 156 for pictures.

To ID parallel or tapered lips, look down on the magazine lips.

The early magazine has the feed lips parallel to each other, and a very, very slight "notch" about 1/2 of the way forward.
This slight "notch" is the cartridge release point.

The new style lips don't have the small notch, and the lips are tapered, narrow at the rear, wider at the front.
Slightly more than 1/2 of the way forward, about even with the dimple in the follower, the taper suddenly opens up wider. This is the tapered mag release point.

With the older style mags, the "notch" makes it difficult to tune the magazine for release.
The newer tapered lips are much easier to tune, and control the cartridge longer then the parallel type, which is the reason for the change.

The new style are the current factory type, and have been around since at least the 70's, if not before.

Looking at a set of 20 standard model mags, blued and stainless with the new style tapered lips, all are marked with the "M", the stainless mags also with the "S".

In this case, at least, the "M" does not denote Match since these are for a Combat Commander and a Series 80 Mark IV Government Model.

One former customer was absolutely SURE the "C" and the "S" meant the Colt Custom Shop.

Frankly, it's been so long, I just can't remember the early Gold Cups having a special magazine.

I've checked my old parts catalogs, and as far back as I looked, the Gold Cup, the Government Model, and the Commander all had the same part number for the magazines.

Many gunsmith's did alter magazines for shooting the lead wadcutter Match ammo, since that ammo didn't feed well without tuning.

For what it's worth, my interest in magazines was how they worked, not what was stamped on them, so I may be all wet.

In my opinion the marks are for the maker of the mag, and the finish, since stainless mags always seem to have the "S", and as I said I SEEM to remember "N" on nickel mags.
I've been wrong before.

 

[Ira Paine]

I think we are talking about the same thing but using different terms. From what I can remember of my shooting days the match lips or taper if you like, were made for the SWC match loads because they would feed better.

The first time we seen that type of mag was with Gold Cups and they had an M stamped on the base. Maybe we were wrong in thinking it meant Match, and was for the SWC match loads.

Any way in the target shooting world that's what most all of us thought it meant as they worked a lot better than the standard lips for SWC match ammo.

Not long after Colt came out with that type of mag gunsmiths started to convert the standard mags to what they called the "M" or Match type, of course they were the same as the Colt Gold Cup type lips.

I'm sure they will work just fine in Combat Commanders or a Series 80 Government Model or
any other old or current 45.

I cant see any reason why in this day Colt or anyone would want to make or use the old type mags as the new ones worked so much better.
I P

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dfariswheel:
Check Kuhnhausen's book on the 1911, pages 155 and 156 for pictures.

To ID parallel or tapered lips, look down on the magazine lips.

The early magazine has the feed lips parallel to each other, and a very, very slight "notch" about 1/2 of the way forward.
This slight "notch" is the cartridge release point.

The new style lips don't have the small notch, and the lips are tapered, narrow at the rear, wider at the front.
Slightly more than 1/2 of the way forward, about even with the dimple in the follower, the taper suddenly opens up wider. This is the tapered mag release point.

With the older style mags, the "notch" makes it difficult to tune the magazine for release.
The newer tapered lips are much easier to tune, and control the cartridge longer then the parallel type, which is the reason for the change.

The new style are the current factory type, and have been around since at least the 70's, if not before.

Looking at a set of 20 standard model mags, blued and stainless with the new style tapered lips, all are marked with the "M", the stainless mags also with the "S".

In this case, at least, the "M" does not denote Match since these are for a Combat Commander and a Series 80 Mark IV Government Model.

One former customer was absolutely SURE the "C" and the "S" meant the Colt Custom Shop.

Frankly, it's been so long, I just can't remember the early Gold Cups having a special magazine.

I've checked my old parts catalogs, and as far back as I looked, the Gold Cup, the Government Model, and the Commander all had the same part number for the magazines.

Many gunsmith's did alter magazines for shooting the lead wadcutter Match ammo, since that ammo didn't feed well without tuning.

For what it's worth, my interest in magazines was how they worked, not what was stamped on them, so I may be all wet.

In my opinion the marks are for the maker of the mag, and the finish, since stainless mags always seem to have the "S", and as I said I SEEM to remember "N" on nickel mags.
I've been wrong before.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



[This message has been edited by Ira Paine (edited 08-15-2004).]

 

[Sourdough Sam]

Guys-

I want to thank everyone of you for the replies. Once again, this forum provides a great learning experience, and is indeed the "bee's knee's" of Forums.

Regards,

Sam

 

[JeffG]

A while back I had a conversation with a Colt parts distributor concerning the meaning of the "M" on the bottom of Colt 1911 mags. He told me that the "M" stood for Metalform.