[John Fugate]

I do not think these boxes are intended to fool anyone. I think these boxes are for people who will settle for a reproduction box for their vintage gun. Nobody buys these to be genuine,, nobody. That's being realistic.

 

[John Fugate]

Let me give you an example, he sells Camp Perry boxes for roughly a 150.00 bucks,, anybody who knows anything would know a Genuine Camp Perry box in pristine condition such as the boxes he is selling would bring 1000-1500 fairly easy. So the buyer who pays 150.00 dollars thinking he is getting a genuine pristine perfect 1500.00 dollar Camp Perry box in my eyes is the one with the issue not the seller.

 

[John Fugate]

These boxes in no way hinder my pre war double action Colt collecting nor do they effect the temperature of the serious pre war Colt DA collector market. These boxes are not in my world nor do they effect my world.

These boxes are a novelty for people who just want a box for their old gun. The crispy bright box looks good sitting in the safe, its something once a year Uncle Ted can pull it out at Thanksgiving and show off. It never fails to go over on the Inlaws and Grandkids. " Year after year nobody at the dinner tables ever passes judgment on Uncle Ted for his ' questionable" maroon boxed 1930 police positive, they all just grin and eat their turkey. Ted, laughs on the inside and tells himself,, "Nobody has a clue, I'm batting a thousand." The end. ------------------ " that's the guy who buys these boxes"

John

 

[John Fugate]

That may well be true, John. However, everything that this guy touches stinks to high heaven. He is just dishonest......period. And if he manages to snooker a few buyers he is the one who has issues, not the buyer.

His flawless feedback proves to me, his buyers know exactly what they are buying and they are content with his product. If these people were not getting what they thought they were getting, he would have hundreds of negatives. They know what they are buying.​

 

[John Fugate]

Will only be a matter of time before someone artificially ages these boxes and attempts to sell them as originals.

I think I read where someone has already tried that exact thing on the internet.

 

[John Fugate]

I stand behind the idea his customers know what they are buying. That's just my opinion. If he had a gross amount of negative feedbacks, then I may have a different perspective but his feedback is perfect.

John

 

[John Fugate]

My question. Are people who buy original boxes from any source and put a gun in that original box not deceiving a potential buyer if they do not advertise that the box is not original to the gun? I think the whole obsession that collectors have of 'needing an original box' has gotten way out of line.

When you mate "any" box with a gun and advertise it an all original package, yes that is deceiving. Mixing and matching boxes is for the birds, to me your adding insult to injury. Once the original box is gone its gone forever. Nothing wrong with owning a nice collector grade Colt without a box. I would personally rather own a gun without a box than have it in a box that is was not shipped in. That's not the case for many people. Some people just want their gun to be in a box, some people like to have their guns in period correct boxes. Some people buy reproduction boxes and are very content.

John

 

[John Fugate]

I appreciate the comments, and this is a good discussion. Reproduction items are all over the place, we have to learn to live with it. Its here to stay. Its in every collectible, from Rolexes to depression glass to vintage marbles. All we can do is further educate ourselves and push forward. I do not let reproduction items hinder what I do or break my spirit of the hobby. I don't buy it, sell it or collect it. I focus on the best condition authentic items I can find and keep turning over rocks looking for treasure.


John

 

[John Fugate]

Readily available fakes undercut the value of genuine items. Not every buyer is an expert who can readily distinguish the difference.

I've watched this happen with vintage firearms catalogs and envelopes that have been re-popped. If you want to lose a potential buyer, try explaining that the proof that the 20's vintage AH Fox catalog I'm trying to sell him is authentic is because "Look!. The staples are rusty, re-pops use stainless staples!".

Who here would buy a Rolex off of eBay?

Fakes do not undercut the value of genuine items,,, the guy whos going to pay big bucks for genuine 1930's Ansley H Fox catalog don't have to be prompted or educated. Hes already been to school and you can bet he knows what he is looking at. Plenty of smart collectors in this world with money. I am in the gun business, and the guy looking at buying the 400.00 Ruger is the guy who ask a million questions and has to ask his wife and check his finances. The guy who buys the 50,000 double rifle, picks it up looks it over and writes the check. I don't have to tell him it was proofed in England in 1925,, he knows that as well or better than I do. The advance collectors who spend the big money for the most part are the most educated. Sometimes there is a rogue on GB spending his wrongful termination settlement money at light speed on every python that comes down the pike. Those guys last about as long as a June frost. The way I see it in my eyes fake items do not hinder the real stuff or its value. Yes, I have bought several genuine Rolex watches off of Ebay, but I know what I am looking at. The guys on Ebay with good feedback, good pictures, and take paypal get my business. People are afraid of internet buying and for good reason, but once you learn the ropes and figure it out, You will agree the internet is one of the best if not the only place to shop. I have had my bumps and bruises along the way with internet buying but that's what makes you a better buyer. The best lesson I was ever taught, was by a man who told me the only way to learn was to participate. Don't let one, or two or three bad deals stop you from buying on the internet have patience. There are a million good deals out there to be had with the proper education and diligence and a decent bankroll never hurt anything either. Going bear hunting with a switch wont get you anything but lost in the woods. The bottom line is don't let the reproduction items stop you from doing what you love. When I hear I don't buy on the internet because of all the fraud, makes me laugh this is 2013. That's a cop out, and simple minded thinking. Negative propaganda is what we need less of and more positive threads about the benefits and rewards of this hobby. Gun collecting is one of most American things we have. Its freedom at its very best.

John

 

[John Fugate]

John, now you sound like and elitist. The individual who purchases the $600 Smith asks numerous questions because he/she is a member of the middle class that gives life to this hobby and has to watch how he/she spends their hard earned dollars. He/she is as educated about the hobby as the individual that can plunk down 50 grand for a collectible.

I am not an elitist, I am just making an analogy. Sir, I am middle class which is promotion from how I grew up. I wear wore out overalls and drink domestic beer. I think you have missed my point. From what I seen, the advanced collectors who make the big purchases are the people who make it a lifelong mission to learn all the can about what they love. I learn a lot from listening to what they have to say. The people who buy inexpensive guns for the most part, just want to know how it shoots and does it come in stainless with night sites. Neither party is better than the next and both types make keep this hobby alive. Just showing the degree of time and eduction some people put into the hobby of gun collecting as compared to others. There are people who are gun nuts and people who are nuts about guns. Most so called gun collectors are merely accumulators. Just because you own 150 guns does not make you a true gun collector. You can own 6 guns and be an advanced gun collector. The size and cost of your collection means nothing if it doesn't have your heart and soul written all over it.

John

 

[John Fugate]

Why would a gun guy support anti-gun paypal?

I use pay pal to buy and sell gun parts on a regular basis, they provide a good service. I am not a radical, I am a realist.

John Fugate

 

[John Fugate]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe ebay and paypal are connected in some way. I try very hard not to give money to people who will use a percentage of said money to promote things that may or may not change laws that will land the law abiding in jail. Like your pmags? In the end sometimes the great deal you think your getting isn't worth the long term cost.

Paypal and Ebay may be owned by the same corporation I am not sure ? Call me a rogue,, but I am going to buy and sell on Ebay til they pry my cold dead fingers off the keyboard. I am not going to boycott Walmart either because they buy overseas products. Everything is tied to everything if you want to dig deep enough. I am not a radical, I am just a realistic American consumer.

John

 

[John Fugate]

Unfortunately it is happening because many people buy the fake,put thier gun in it,put it in the safe,and there it will live for years.Most people take it at face value that it is real and another fake enters the marketplace. I am glad I have the views I do.I buy a Colt for my "Accumulation" to shoot it.The "box" has no real intrinsic value to me as none of my guns are collectable.I am in the market for a plastic Colt Box for the practical reason of having a case if one needs to be shipped back to Colt for work. If it is a "fake" Colt case who cares as long as it will suit the purpose of shipping.

Good point. Original boxes mean everything to some people and nothing to others. If I were going to buy a Colt python tomorrow to go out and shoot I would seek a nice used unboxed gun for hundreds less than a nib example. I tell my customers the same thing, don't buy a NIB 40 year old gun to take to the range, unless you can stand the immediate depreciation. Buy smart based on your wants and needs.

John