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My question. Are people who buy original boxes from any source and put a gun in that original box not deceiving a potential buyer if they do not advertise that the box is not original to the gun? I think the whole obsession that collectors have of 'needing an original box' has gotten way out of line.
More fake boxes from you know who...
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My question. Are people who buy original boxes from any source and put a gun in that original box not deceiving a potential buyer if they do not advertise that the box is not original to the gun? I think the whole obsession that collectors have of 'needing an original box' has gotten way out of line.
When you mate "any" box with a gun and advertise it an all original package, yes that is deceiving. Mixing and matching boxes is for the birds, to me your adding insult to injury. Once the original box is gone its gone forever. Nothing wrong with owning a nice collector grade Colt without a box. I would personally rather own a gun without a box than have it in a box that is was not shipped in. That's not the case for many people. Some people just want their gun to be in a box, some people like to have their guns in period correct boxes. Some people buy reproduction boxes and are very content.
John
I would purchase a few of FBG "original" NOS "I just happened upon a truckload that had sat unused for 40 years" boxes, manuals, hang tags and plastic bags and eat expense just to get more positive physical proof BUT he reads this forum and he obviously has my screen name written down somewhere as "This guy KNOWS I SELL REPRODUCTION STUFF do not do business with". My screen name is the same for all my forums and auctions so I can't hide and it's too difficult to re-establish credibility as a new user if I changed all my data. He's seen my comments and a few years ago I even emailed his GB account to ask a question about an item I knew was reproduction and he danced around the answer more fleet footed than Fred Astaire. His time will come and with all due respect to John's opinion "that everyone knows what they're getting from him"(maybe paraphrased), I disagree. Two forum members just admitted to "letting the deal slide" because the FBG tippy toed and sent some extra money for their "inconvenience" (read he got caught red handed and bare butted). In closing, with his volume of sales I actually believe a lot of his customers aren't as well informed as John thinks they may be and the feedback is empirical data that has been skewed by returns and buy backs to avoid negative feedback as demonstrated in the past responses on this thread alone. I don't believe in coincidence on this scale. Maybe I'm a pessimist because this guy is slick tongued like a snake oil salesman. The preceding is my opinion, I take full responsibility for it's content.
P.S. If I wanted handgun storage boxes I would buy the plain ones offered through Midway at 7.99 and even pop for the treated paper to wrap the revolver in. Then I'd get a Sharpie and write the contents down on the end of the box.
P.S. If I wanted handgun storage boxes I would buy the plain ones offered through Midway at 7.99 and even pop for the treated paper to wrap the revolver in. Then I'd get a Sharpie and write the contents down on the end of the box.
Readily available fakes undercut the value of genuine items. Not every buyer is an expert who can readily distinguish the difference.
I've watched this happen with vintage firearms catalogs and envelopes that have been re-popped. If you want to lose a potential buyer, try explaining that the proof that the 20's vintage AH Fox catalog I'm trying to sell him is authentic is because "Look!. The staples are rusty, re-pops use stainless staples!".
Who here would buy a Rolex off of eBay?
I've watched this happen with vintage firearms catalogs and envelopes that have been re-popped. If you want to lose a potential buyer, try explaining that the proof that the 20's vintage AH Fox catalog I'm trying to sell him is authentic is because "Look!. The staples are rusty, re-pops use stainless staples!".
Who here would buy a Rolex off of eBay?
I have seen folks at gun show's see a nice ,good looking early colt,or smith wesson,or a early ruger, and get so excited,that they don't care if the box is original or fake.
some folks will ask if box is original,but most have made there mind up they are buying the item. some poster's have written here,a lot of folk's dont care if the box is the real thing.they are happy to have the gun,and when told the box is not factory original,most dont care as they are happy to get the gun.i agree with fugate about some guns. a lot of mint,like new,collector quality guns have jumped in price the last few years.a lot of guns have gone uplike crazy,and i think the higher the price is,the rarer the gun is, the real pro's,and highly qualified collector's want everything to be original.
some folks will ask if box is original,but most have made there mind up they are buying the item. some poster's have written here,a lot of folk's dont care if the box is the real thing.they are happy to have the gun,and when told the box is not factory original,most dont care as they are happy to get the gun.i agree with fugate about some guns. a lot of mint,like new,collector quality guns have jumped in price the last few years.a lot of guns have gone uplike crazy,and i think the higher the price is,the rarer the gun is, the real pro's,and highly qualified collector's want everything to be original.
This is a great discussion. It sure makes me re-think what NIB really means--not as much as it used to.
A gun that is truely "NIB" is a wonderful thing to a collector but I have never understood the need to collect.To me guns were meant to be shot and the only thing accomplished by Safe Queens is that your heirs will enjoy the money they get for them. To me shooting my Colts give me far more pleasure than locking a NIB away.With the flood of fakes, it is sad to say that you must look at the boxes as fake until proven otherwise.If I ever get my Python wish gun it will be either thru Marc of Keystone Arms or John Fugate because thier reps are impecible and I will be getting exactly what is presented.
I appreciate the comments, and this is a good discussion. Reproduction items are all over the place, we have to learn to live with it. Its here to stay. Its in every collectible, from Rolexes to depression glass to vintage marbles. All we can do is further educate ourselves and push forward. I do not let reproduction items hinder what I do or break my spirit of the hobby. I don't buy it, sell it or collect it. I focus on the best condition authentic items I can find and keep turning over rocks looking for treasure.
John
John
Well stated. Gun collecting and the shooting sports are a wonderful hobby. We have to educate ourselves and this forum is a fantasticl means.I appreciate the comments, and this is a good discussion. Reproduction items are all over the place, we have to learn to live with it. Its here to stay. Its in every collectible, from Rolexes to depression glass to vintage marbles. All we can do is further educate ourselves and push forward. I do not let reproduction items hinder what I do or break my spirit of the hobby. I don't buy it, sell it or collect it. I focus on the best condition authentic items I can find and keep turning over rocks looking for treasure.
John
Fakes do not undercut the value of genuine items,,, the guy whos going to pay big bucks for genuine 1930's Ansley H Fox catalog don't have to be prompted or educated. Hes already been to school and you can bet he knows what he is looking at. Plenty of smart collectors in this world with money. I am in the gun business, and the guy looking at buying the 400.00 Ruger is the guy who ask a million questions and has to ask his wife and check his finances. The guy who buys the 50,000 double rifle, picks it up looks it over and writes the check. I don't have to tell him it was proofed in England in 1925,, he knows that as well or better than I do. The advance collectors who spend the big money for the most part are the most educated. Sometimes there is a rogue on GB spending his wrongful termination settlement money at light speed on every python that comes down the pike. Those guys last about as long as a June frost. The way I see it in my eyes fake items do not hinder the real stuff or its value. Yes, I have bought several genuine Rolex watches off of Ebay, but I know what I am looking at. The guys on Ebay with good feedback, good pictures, and take paypal get my business. People are afraid of internet buying and for good reason, but once you learn the ropes and figure it out, You will agree the internet is one of the best if not the only place to shop. I have had my bumps and bruises along the way with internet buying but that's what makes you a better buyer. The best lesson I was ever taught, was by a man who told me the only way to learn was to participate. Don't let one, or two or three bad deals stop you from buying on the internet have patience. There are a million good deals out there to be had with the proper education and diligence and a decent bankroll never hurt anything either. Going bear hunting with a switch wont get you anything but lost in the woods. The bottom line is don't let the reproduction items stop you from doing what you love. When I hear I don't buy on the internet because of all the fraud, makes me laugh this is 2013. That's a cop out, and simple minded thinking. Negative propaganda is what we need less of and more positive threads about the benefits and rewards of this hobby. Gun collecting is one of most American things we have. Its freedom at its very best.Readily available fakes undercut the value of genuine items. Not every buyer is an expert who can readily distinguish the difference.
I've watched this happen with vintage firearms catalogs and envelopes that have been re-popped. If you want to lose a potential buyer, try explaining that the proof that the 20's vintage AH Fox catalog I'm trying to sell him is authentic is because "Look!. The staples are rusty, re-pops use stainless staples!".
Who here would buy a Rolex off of eBay?
John
John, now you sound like and elitist. The individual who purchases the $600 Smith asks numerous questions because he/she is a member of the middle class that gives life to this hobby and has to watch how he/she spends their hard earned dollars. He/she is as educated about the hobby as the individual that can plunk down 50 grand for a collectible.
Fakes do not undercut the value of genuine items,,, the guy whos going to pay big bucks for genuine 1930's Ansley H Fox catalog don't have to be prompted or educated. Hes already been to school and you can bet he knows what he is looking at. Plenty of smart collectors in this world with money. I am in the gun business, and the guy looking at buying the 600.00 Smith and Wesson is the guy who ask a million questions and has to ask his wife and check his finances. The guy who buys the 50,000 double rifle, picks it up looks it over and writes the check. I don't have to tell him it was proofed in England in 1925,, he knows that as well or better than I do. The advance collectors who spend the money for the most part are the most educated. Sometimes there is a rogue on GB spending his wrongful termination settlement money at light speed on every python that comes down the pike. Those guys last about as long as a June frost. Once again fake items do not hinder the real stuff or its value. NO Way. And yes I have bought several Rolexes off of Ebay, but I know what I am looking at.
John
I am not an elitist, I am just making an analogy. Sir, I am middle class which is promotion from how I grew up. I wear wore out overalls and drink domestic beer. I think you have missed my point. From what I seen, the advanced collectors who make the big purchases are the people who make it a lifelong mission to learn all the can about what they love. I learn a lot from listening to what they have to say. The people who buy inexpensive guns for the most part, just want to know how it shoots and does it come in stainless with night sites. Neither party is better than the next and both types make keep this hobby alive. Just showing the degree of time and eduction some people put into the hobby of gun collecting as compared to others. There are people who are gun nuts and people who are nuts about guns. Most so called gun collectors are merely accumulators. Just because you own 150 guns does not make you a true gun collector. You can own 6 guns and be an advanced gun collector. The size and cost of your collection means nothing if it doesn't have your heart and soul written all over it.John, now you sound like and elitist. The individual who purchases the $600 Smith asks numerous questions because he/she is a member of the middle class that gives life to this hobby and has to watch how he/she spends their hard earned dollars. He/she is as educated about the hobby as the individual that can plunk down 50 grand for a collectible.
John
Why would a gun guy support anti-gun paypal?The guys on Ebay with good feedback, good pictures, and take paypal get my business.
John
Paypal is a great way to make internet transactions. Maybe some pro-gun person with business experience/connections will create a gun-friendly Paypal.
Since ebay does not allow guns, should all gun people boycott it? My grandmother would say, "That's like cutting off your nose to spite your face."
Since ebay does not allow guns, should all gun people boycott it? My grandmother would say, "That's like cutting off your nose to spite your face."
I use pay pal to buy and sell gun parts on a regular basis, they provide a good service. I am not a radical, I am a realist.Why would a gun guy support anti-gun paypal?
John Fugate
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe ebay and paypal are connected in some way. I try very hard not to give money to people who will use a percentage of said money to promote things that may or may not change laws that will land the law abiding in jail. Like your pmags? In the end sometimes the great deal you think your getting isn't worth the long term cost.
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe ebay and paypal are connected in some way. I try very hard not to give money to people who will use a percentage of said money to promote things that may or may not change laws that will land the law abiding in jail. Like your pmags? In the end sometimes the great deal you think your getting isn't worth the long term cost.
Paypal and Ebay may be owned by the same corporation I am not sure ? Call me a rogue,, but I am going to buy and sell on Ebay til they pry my cold dead fingers off the keyboard. I am not going to boycott Walmart either because they buy overseas products. Everything is tied to everything if you want to dig deep enough. I am not a radical, I am just a realistic American consumer.
John
I accept paypal for those who want to pay for a gun they purchased on GB I just send them an invoice for audio equipment.
Ebay owns PayPal. Ebay is as anti-gun as any business around. I guess people can justify giving their hard-earned money to anti-gun companies, but I will never understand it !!!
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