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Hello, I'm new to the site and thought this would be the best place to try and get some information about this .36 Cal Colt Model 1851 Navy Revolver s/n 33958 manufactured in 1853 that will be coming up in our auction in April.

We are trying to identify the marking at the top of the backstrap on this example. Is this some form of ownership marking? Has anyone ever seen anything like it before and are there other Colts marked the same?

Any help would be appreciated.

Colt36CalM1851_zpsuxlzfeek.jpg
Colt36CalM1851_marking_zpsglqavhar.jpg
Colt36CalM1851_address_zpsows6qjse.jpg


Regards,
Ted
 

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I can't help with the marking but welcome to the Colt Forum. You should receive some information shortly. Regards, Bill
 

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Welcome to the Forum. I do not recognize that marking, but it looks like a seal
of some European country. I will let you know if I find it in one of my gun books.
Hopefully, the marking will be recognized immediately by one of our other members.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Hi guys, thanks for the welcome.

We were wondering the same thing that the markings could be from Europe. The crown seems to mean Baron or Baroness. The lower part of the marking within an oval has us stumped.
 

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Why that's MY royal seal and I thank you for finding my gun!! :p

Seriously, you are going to have to slowly search the Internet for it. Search under 'firearms crown proof marks'. There's a boatload of them. Good luck.
 

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I was going to suggest getting a factory letter, but noted these are available in the 98,000 to 132,000 serial number range, so that is not an option.

If it was an option, Colt charges you $300 for this and at least $100 more if any engraving is noted.
 

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The 'Crown' is in fact a Coronet.
In Britain a Crown indicates a monarch and a Coronet indicates a member of a noble house, a Duke, Earl, etc. The feathers are similar to those of the Prince of Wales. As there is no memtion of an inscription it suggests that it was s peronal iten maked for the owner rather than a presentation.
I woul suggest that one lead would be to check with the 'Collage of Arms'.
Goof luck.
 

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It's the Fleur-de-Lys and the crown of a french noble, probably a count (Compte), ancien Regime. Still living under Napoleon III ?
 

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My exercise in futility --- I tried to ID the crown mark in Stockel & found one similar in Vol II, closest on page 913, with # a5394=689 & date 1822, referring to Vol I which IDs it to Italy, 1822. Stockel has crown marks illustrated & ID on pages 908 to 914. Except for good luck, you probably won't ID the crown mark on the '51 Navy at auction.

For info anyone interested, Stockel, published 1938 in Denmark in Danish language is probably the world standard of reference for proof & maker's marks on guns. An update of the original, called New Stockel was published late 1970s in 3 volumes at $300, which included English & U.S. makers. IMO no real improvement on the original which I imported in the 1960s in paper back for $6/set & sold a dozen or so at NY area gun shows.
 

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In my eyes, the crown and Fleur-de-Lys is not a gunsmith or dealers mark, but one of the owner. So you will not find the Crown Fleur-de-Lys mark in the Neue Stöckel
 

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I've looked, myself - to no avail.

Now, I'm inclined to look at it as more of a 'private trading company' mark - and there were a lot of them - perhaps one officially licensed by the Crown of whatever nation that crown represents.
 

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The crown and fleur-de-Lys are not stamps, but engravings. Too big for a roll on or stamp on a round surface.
 

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The 'Crown' is in fact a Coronet.
In Britain a Crown indicates a monarch and a Coronet indicates a member of a noble house, a Duke, Earl, etc. The feathers are similar to those of the Prince of Wales. As there is no memtion of an inscription it suggests that it was s peronal iten maked for the owner rather than a presentation.
I woul suggest that one lead would be to check with the 'Collage of Arms'.
Goof luck.
This sounds correct to me.



The bound Feathers are not a 'Fleur de Lis' and not likely French, but rather English.

And indeed, the seeming 'Crown like' Device is a Coronet ( and not a Crown as such ), just as stanforth relays.
 

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Wikipedia shows a number Crowns (Heraldry) or Coronets from several European countries that are almost identical to this (7 points), and ALL of them say they are for a Baron. Will continue to look for the under design. It might be part of a Family Crest or Coat-of-Arms.
 

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Wikipedia shows a number Crowns (Heraldry) or Coronets from several European countries that are almost identical to this (7 points), and ALL of them say they are for a Baron. Will continue to look for the under design. It might be part of a Family Crest or Coat-of-Arms.
This would be my own appreciation...that the Engraved devices represent a Family ( if not actually a Coat of Arms as such, which would be a lot more involved symbol wise ).

The item below the Coronet, I do take to be ( albeit, rather styalized ) Feathers, or one might say "Plumes".

Not too many families had used those in their crests or emblems.
 

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A coat of arms is a much more elaborate device and can only be carried by the head of a noble family. A family crest is another matter, it is simpler (like the item we are talking about) and can be used by any member of the family. Ives - England small.jpg Ives - England.jpg I have attached samples of each. They are from my family. I could not use the Arms but, if I was that way inclined, use the crest.
 

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Well, if we go with 'plumes', then they're clearly 'Price of Wales' plumes, and those do show up - sans this style of crown.
 
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