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Speculation, assumptions, and rumors or is there something to what I’ve been hearing?

I know Dpris, Skw, Brent, and maybe a few other Forum members has production knowledge that quite often lands close to the center of the target and/or bullseye.

( To protect the guilty )... a “friend” mentioned that a Colt rep made the comment that this new Cobra has been one pain in the posterior for Colt, mostly to do with parts or whatever the reason.. it’s not been fun and there is basically no chance of another double action model in the foreseeable future.
What say ye of those with a possible glimpse at the Colt crystal ball...

Furthermore, the SFVI model, basically almost the same gun as the new Cobra, went only two years of production (round about 95-‘96 ) .. how is the Cobra looking for continuance , or is it too soon to tell?
 

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Just a question. Why is there a problem with "parts"? Is Colt outsourcing some of these or
is it due to a new production method (vs. the old standard ways) that's causing the issue.
 

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There was a rumor that the initial vendor was being dropped due to some initial problems...quality control or failure to meet delivery schedules? A rumor...who knows how accurate that might be.
 
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That's not good news to hear at all. I thought the entire gun was made by Colt in Hartford. First I heard of it. That would certainly explain the extremely low production numbers for this new model launch.
Please tell me they still make the SAA entirely in house.
 

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Well then -- to me it's not a "real" colt. Same argument that's always brought
up about the signature series black powder guns.

I was on the fence about buying onw. Now, I'm pretty sure that I don't need one.
Sorry, but that's very disappointing news.
It's the same thing with most products nowadays. Take cars for example: You're thinking that you're buying genuine Detroit iron, but it's a bunch of components from different subcontractors all over the world, and assembled in Mexico. Just a sign of the times.
 

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The gun is largely MIM & entirely outsourced for parts.
There were problems with the first thousand units that delayed things.

Colt is entirely dependent on outside vendors for parts to assemble the guns.
The last time I'm aware of this much of a Colt model being SO outsourced was the All-American 2000.
I was told by a Colt rep in 1993 that that one was 90% outsourced.

There has been talk of following up with additional DA revolvers, but at this point....
Denis
 

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Let me see if I've got this straight. The two newest handguns to wear the Colt name, the 1903 and the Cobra, were made by U.S. Armament and some company in Mexico. It seems to me that Colt is trading on it's legendary name without the quality that's made the name famous for 162 years. :(
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
US Armament certainly makes the 1903. I think Ollie was just saying a hypothetical and using Mexico as an example.
Again, total rumor mill word of mouth, but hearing that Ruger is the largest producer of firearm mim Parts (I can believe it) and is behind the new Cobra Parts in some form or fashion - That Information is again - total rumor which what I thought might be some information either confirmed as true or false here.

(We know that Ollie is right about the car situation. Both Canada and Mexico make Fords and Chevy’s) ...and (I’m sidetracking my own thread aren’t I. :) )
 

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While this may be taking the thread completely off the rails, there is a difference between the cars and guns metaphor. Yes...Fords and Chebbies are made...entirely or in part...in Mexico, Canada and other locations. But those assembly plants are Ford and GM factories...just in non-US locations. It's not the same as Colt outsourcing parts to non-Colt owned companies. The end result is the same, though. Maybe it's a distinction without a difference.

My wife's car is a Ford Fusion assembled at a Ford plant in Mexico. My previous SUV was a Mercury Mountaineer with an engine made in a Ford plant in Germany mated to a transmission made in a Ford plant in France and all were put together in a Ford assembly plant in the US. It's all Ford made parts...just from various Ford plants in various locations.

Colt can't say that. But S&W does the same. In today's world with the government mandates on providing health care, the legacy costs of retired personnel, tax policies, the costs of amortizing costs of parts production over expected production runs, etc., it's simply a no-brainer of a business decision to farm out the making of many parts to vendors who specialize in such things. It allows the vendors to bear the costs of their employees and be more efficient at what they do best. Those costs do get passed along to Colt (or whatever company is discussed), but it's all deductible as a cost of doing business plus no legacy costs of healthcare, retirement, etc. It's being done all through the corporate world.

When I was a kid, my dad owned and published a newspaper. He didn't have any printing abilities...he farmed it out to a commercial printer. The costs of running a complete printing operation would have been crushing for a newspaper the size of his. Outsourcing gave him the ability to concentrate his efforts and finances on the product itself...not running, operating and maintaining a printing operation. My dad put the ads together and proofread it but others printed and mailed it. It's really no different than what is common today.

It's a different business world today...for better or worse. We're not in Kansas anymore.
 

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While this may be taking the thread completely off the rails, there is a difference between the cars and guns metaphor. Yes...Fords and Chebbies are made...entirely or in part...in Mexico, Canada and other locations. But those assembly plants are Ford and GM factories...just in non-US locations. It's not the same as Colt outsourcing parts to non-Colt owned companies. The end result is the same, though. Maybe it's a distinction without a difference.

My wife's car is a Ford Fusion assembled at a Ford plant in Mexico. My previous SUV was a Mercury Mountaineer with an engine made in a Ford plant in Germany mated to a transmission made in a Ford plant in France and all were put together in a Ford assembly plant in the US. It's all Ford made parts...just from various Ford plants in various locations.

Colt can't say that. But S&W does the same. In today's world with the government mandates on providing health care, the legacy costs of retired personnel, tax policies, the costs of amortizing costs of parts production over expected production runs, etc., it's simply a no-brainer of a business decision to farm out the making of many parts to vendors who specialize in such things. It allows the vendors to bear the costs of their employees and be more efficient at what they do best. Those costs do get passed along to Colt (or whatever company is discussed), but it's all deductible as a cost of doing business plus no legacy costs of healthcare, retirement, etc. It's being done all through the corporate world.

When I was a kid, my dad owned and published a newspaper. He didn't have any printing abilities...he farmed it out to a commercial printer. The costs of running a complete printing operation would have been crushing for a newspaper the size of his. Outsourcing gave him the ability to concentrate his efforts and finances on the product itself...not running, operating and maintaining a printing operation. My dad put the ads together and proofread it but others printed and mailed it. It's really no different than what is common today.

It's a different business world today...for better or worse. We're not in Kansas anymore.
That's exactly how it works, and there's really nothing wrong with that as long as the "manufacturer" (which I put within quotation marks) keeps a close eye on his subcontractors. In real life (and I have seen this many times) the sub bids on a bid package containing specs, delivery terms, price etc, and if he says he can deliver he's is picked on price only. Sometimes there's room for negotiations, sometimes there's not. Unfortunately, some bidders may stretch the truth a bit when they say that they can meet specs, deadlines etc, so production can be delayed and defective or incorrectly made components may very well find their way into production if the "manufacturer" doesn't have a strict QC program.

In theory, there's really nothing wrong with this. It goes without saying that Colt can't run a foundry, forging, MIM and other processes as efficiently as subs that specialize in these operations. On the flip side, it takes a much greater effort in QC and logistics to make sure that parts are correctly made and delivered on time. In many industries they have this down to the tee, so parts delivered in the morning will be assembled the very same day. If you need 500 components, you have 500 components delivered at the time you need them. No cost for keeping parts in stock or handling surplus. Again, it sounds great in theory, but it doesn't take very much for a system like that to be put out of commission. It's easy to see that just one missed delivery or one bad batch of components will make the production come to a dead stop, and it sounds like this is why the release of the Cobra was delayed. They were just sorting out problems caused by subs that had promised more than they could keep.
 

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In real life (and I have seen this many times) the sub bids on a bid package containing specs, delivery terms, price etc, and if he says he can deliver he's is picked on price only.
When in a training session many years ago as a law enforcement firearms instructor, one of the lead instructors was discussing how police agencies get equipment. He said every agency he knows of buys all the same brands..."low bid".
 
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