New Service .44-40 3 inch 1909 transitional model (new photos)

7340 Views 54 Replies 23 Participants Last post by infamous.jas, 4 d ago

twaits

Discussion Starter · Nov 21, 2009 (Edited)

Just got my cut down New Service I bought via GunBroker today.
The gun has been quite nicely refinished and very well cut down. I'm very impressed with how nice it looks. However, unfortunately the gun has some timing issues and is not as tight as a Colt should be. I think I want to get it to a professional to have it tuned. I'm just hoping it's not too worn out to have that done. It seems that the hand is just a little too worn to lift enough when cocked slowly to fully lock the cylinder. But also the bolt drops a little too late and seems to throwby on one of the chambers if cocked too quickly or pulled too quickly in DA.
Compared to my other Colts it's quite loose. My other New Service locks up like a bank vault when you pull the trigger with NO movement of the cylinder whatsoever. This one is still kind of loose. There is also more endshake but I don't know how much endshake is considered unacceptable. It shakes more than my other NS but it doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

Also note that this is an old style frame with the newer style lockwork. It has the hammer block inside. Wyatt Burp told me he thinks only a couple thousand of this type were made. This one is serial number 21873.

Anyhow, any comments or suggestions are much appreciated!

Here's some new pics:

Note the blue on the hammer top. This is also on the back with polished sides. Not fire blue like Colt used to do but still very nice. The trigger is the same way:

The crowning and front sight placement seem to be very well done.

Comparison shot with my 1903 New Service in .45 Colt. Note the difference in sight hieght:

Comparison of the top straps. Note the differences:

Note the differences in the style of hammers:

Finally here's the comparison of the internals viewed with the hammer cocked. Note the 1903 has no hammer block safety but the 1909 does:

See less See more

7

Reactions: 5

21 - 40 of 55 Posts

twaits

Discussion Starter · #21 · Nov 22, 2009

whitecoyote said:
Very nice Colt twaits!
As for the Colt action. Send it to Dave Sams. If he could save my Colt 1917, he can surely save your Colt!
http://www.coltforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23325

I remember that thread. That gun is amazing and one of my inspirations for buying mine. Since all of the cosmetic work is already done to mine all I would need is the action job. Do you know what he would charge just for that? I've been thinking about trying this guy: http://www.coltforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=138117#post138117
when I hear back on the reports. Nice guy and always gets right back to you when you contact him. He told me timing job for my DS would be about $50-$60 which seems very reasonable. I may send both the NS and the DS to him.

TimH

· #22 · Nov 22, 2009

Man o' man, that 3-inch New Service is a handsome revolver. I love the look of it.
Did Colt make a 3" model? If they didn't, they should have!
I love it!

twaits

Discussion Starter · #23 · Nov 23, 2009

TimH said:
Man o' man, that 3-inch New Service is a handsome revolver. I love the look of it.
Did Colt make a 3" model? If they didn't, they should have!
I love it!

I believe 4 1/2" was the shortest NS barrel length.

tommix

· #24 · Nov 23, 2009

Here is a 4" .38 Special and a 4 1/2" .38 WCF, major parts are missing. Seriously, have had these barrels for years, both are new, don't remember where they came from. I believe the 4 inchers were the shortest available and only in .38 and .357 in the late 1930's. In earlier production, most calibers were available in 4 1/2" minimum. Wish I could find a decent .38 Special that needed a new barrel...
tommix

See less See more

RHM

· #25 · Feb 5, 2012

I'm the current owner of this New Service and am working on restoring it to usable function. The timing and lock-up have been repaired. The ejector rod is being straightened now. The action was pristine inside with no crud or grit; I'm not sure if I have you to thank for that twaits, or the original owner kept it that nice. The only difficult fix is regulating the sights. The front sight is too tall and is impacting 10" low at 5 yards; I should have this fixed shortly. A buddy is working on building a pancake holster for me so I can carry this beautiful pistol. I'm going to see if I can find anyone with more information about the 2000 transitional models mentioned. Thanks.

twaits

Discussion Starter · #26 · Feb 5, 2012

RHM,

I'm so glad you have the revolver repaired and is being put back to good use. And glad that you are home safe. If I recall correctly you were in Afghanistan? (forgive me if I'm wrong about this)
Anyway, the front sight shouldn't be too difficult to get regulated. Just have to keep shaving it a bit until it is on target.
The action was probably either clean when I got it or cleaned by my gunsmith that attempted to get the timing right the first time around. I think he did end up doing some work to the bolt and it was improved over the way it was when I had given it to him. But in the end he said it needed a new ratchet. Did your gunsmith end up replacing the ratchet or building the current one up?
Hope you post some pics of it with the pancake holster. Sounds like a nice rig.

RHM

· #27 · Feb 5, 2012

twaits,
Thanks. I made it home right before Christmas. While I was gone, my buddy did the gunsmithing on the action, so I fired it some over the holidays. The action is amazingly smooth. He did shape and contour the hand to bring it back into time. I don't recall what else he ended up having to modify, but it didn't require any new parts to do. I left it with another buddy to make the holster, and he and the one that did the timing were also going to slug the barrel. Apparently, it is .426", a true .44-40.

twaits

Discussion Starter · #28 · Feb 5, 2012

That's great news!

fitz2

· #29 · Feb 6, 2012 (Edited)

in 2000 at the Jeff Faintich auction, there was a ns with a 3" barrel and the ramped front sight like the one being discussed on another thread, the gun was a lunchbox gun as it had no vp or inspectors marks,and it was original colt finish, with a serial no., 324880. it was .45 caliber

ShootingMaster

· #30 · Feb 6, 2012

twaits said:
Note the differences in the style of hammers:

Is interesting to see the different profiles in both hammers.
I wonder if the old hammer profile would admit the use of the positive lock as well as the newer hammer design does.
My point is that that the front face of the old hammer type is straight cut (as seen in pics) and does not seem to have a cutout under the firing pin.
I wonder if this cutout present in later hammers must be neccesary in order to leave enough room for the hammer block to slide in.

If this is true, then maybe the transitional models having the positive lock were forced to use the newer hammer type rather than the older one. But I´m just guessing here.

Does anybody know about the time when the hammer design changes were applied?
I would like to know if the hammer design change is independent or is related to the positive lock introduction.
Thanks in advance.

See less See more

Merwin2

· #31 · Feb 6, 2012 (Edited)

Quote: Does anybody know about the time when the hammer design changes were applied?
I would like to know if the hammer design change is independent or is related to the positive lock introduction.
Thanks in advance.

I don't really know, but my 1907 transitional model New Police/Police Positive has the undercut hammer and it is necessary for the hammer block, which it also has. So I'm sure it was made when they went to hammer block claimed for the 1907 year model PP. I think it must have also appeared on a few New Police as well, mine being a mix of each, PP barrel on NP frame. Also in .32 Colt, not NP.32 (.32 S&W with flattened bullet).
Merwin2.

twaits

Discussion Starter · #32 · Feb 6, 2012

I'm willing to bet it was changed at the same time as the positive lock introduction. The firing pin on the newer style is also a seperate piece pinned in. This was a very good design change in my opinion.

Mike Armstrong

· #33 · Feb 6, 2012

I once had a very late (1940s) NS .45 Colt that had the barrel cut down almost flush with the extractor rod. It had been done by a pro and "looked original." Was always surprised how well that short barrel shot, and how easy it was to control. Unfortunately the gun got turned into a valve job on my work car at a time when cash was so short an ant could have stepped over it....HAD to be able to get to work. Life ain't a "reality show," muchachos....

I bet that shorty .44 makes a decent fireball when touched off! Black powder would be a nice fireworks show!

montegomx70

· #34 · Feb 6, 2012

looks like a mean home defender,the guy did a good job.

rhmc24

· #35 · Feb 6, 2012

Re hammers, I have a NS 1902 with the straight hammer and fixed firing pin (part of the hammer), have a NS 1906 with under cut hammer and floating firing pin.

RHM

· #36 · Jun 21, 2012

I wanted to add an update on this revolver. She is shooting point of aim/point of impact at 25 yards with ragged one-hole (6 and 12 shot) groups by a good bullseye shooter (not me) with factory cowboy loads. I received the factory letter on it yesterday, too.

See less See more

twaits

Discussion Starter · #37 · Jun 22, 2012

RHM said:
I wanted to add an update on this revolver. She is shooting point of aim/point of impact at 25 yards with ragged one-hole (6 and 12 shot) groups by a good bullseye shooter (not me) with factory cowboy loads. I received the factory letter on it yesterday, too.

Thanks for sharing this! It's so nice the old blaster went to a good home and to someone that was able to get her up and operating correctly again. Also very cool that you got the letter for it. The Kansas City delivery to Montgomery Wards kind of makes me wish it was still mine

Did you have to do any adjusting to the front sight?
If you get a chance post some more pics of the gun. I'd like to see it again.

RHM

· #38 · Jun 22, 2012

The front sight had to be filed down significantly. The barrel was set back to correct the 5" @ 10 yards impact to the left, too. I may not have the revolver in hand until August, as it is at my buddy's, out of state, having a holster made, but I'll get photos up as soon as I get it back.

cubrock

· #39 · Jun 22, 2012

I like the gun a lot. If you are going to get one that is modified, it would be hard to beat that one. Thank you for the excellent pictures, too. Very informative.

RHM

· #40 · Apr 30, 2013

twaits said:
If you get a chance post some more pics of the gun.

I had forgotten to post this when he finished the holster.

See less See more

Reactions: 3

21 - 40 of 55 Posts