Is it OK to shoot CCI Blazer 200Gr. JHP 45Colt in a New Service? The gun was made in 1923. The gun is in excellent mechanical condition and the timing is right-on. Thanks for any information you can provide. CC
I wouldn't ... but I hardly ever follow my own advice, anyway! What I want to know is what you thought the first time you fired this behemoth, being the Cobra fan you must be!? Really, if it were me, I'd only shoot the tamest I could get ... cowboy action loads would be pretty good, I should think, and plentiful at Wal-Mart, too!
ColtCobra,I will give you some opposite advice from Mr.Wambold. Those CCIs arent that "hot" and are 55 grs less bullet than the N.S. was designed for. They arent like some of the Cor-Bons or Hydra Shocks. I have a score of N.Services and they are "behemoths",and should be perfectly safe with these loads.I routinely shoot 850 fps 950 fps hand loads outta my poat W.W.One trio with 255 gr cast. But a word of caution! The N.Service is a "kicker" and that angular latch on the pre-1932 era "late models",can butcher a thumb depending on your hold,hand size and grip configuration. Measure a N.Service cylinder,then a SAA in the same caliber: N.S is larger. Than why didnt the early "magnum" experimenters such as Keith,Lachuk and Shea use the N.S.(that was much more available & cheaper in the 40s & 50s)??. Because as Bert Shea said in Henry Stebbins book,it "rocks you to the soles of your shoes,where the SAA just kind of recoils & rolls in your hand". He was right on!Next to the Anaconda,this is the strongest Colt ever made,but it is kicker. I find my .44 Special N.Service have more felt recoil than my S&W triple locks & other prewar S&Ws and they are several ounces lighter than the N.S. One other caution,you probably know; it will shoot "low" with the 200 grainers,unless front sight is filed down,but thats your call. Have Fun! Bud
I have fired the CCI loads in several of my NS revolvers which are in excellent mechanical condition . They show no signs of excessive pressure . CCI's literature shows the 200 gr bullet at 900fps muzzle . Fairly mild . Like most of the big ammo companies , they load these old chamberings mild in case they might end up in a black powder rated chamber .
If Cobra's gun is in solid mechanical condition , it should be fine .
[This message has been edited by guy sajer (edited 04-16-2004).]
I definitely would use light loads in the old Gal. When I Shoot my 1909--I go light with a heavy(255g) cast SWC. The metal used in these was a lot different from that used in the modern revolvers. If you do not load get Cowboy ation ammo.
Thanks for the info folks. I have some of the CCI left from a Vaquero I once had and wanted to know if it was OK to use it up in the NS. There is only about 20 rounds. Since I treasure the NS so, I didn't want to frivolously shoot it and ruin the thing. All other shooting is with cowboy loads. Thanks again! CC
very informative thread as always. Do any of you load the 265 gr Keith for the New Service? I haven't tried it for a New Service, but it gives the appearance that the overall length could be too long for the cylinder if crimped in the "crimp" groove of this bullet.
"All generalizations contain errors, including this one."
chumkum; I just measured a .45 Colt N.S. cylinder; length;1.625. This compares to 1.61 for a SAA and 1.632 for a S&W 25-5. As an aside,N.S. cyl also slightly "wider than an SAA by .004. Elmer describes loading "his bullet" in shorter cylinder sixguns,and "how to do it in his book, "Sixguns". This load obviously should be kept "moderate" in New Services. Probably an Anaconda would handle it??????? Bud
I have subsequently remembered what brought the question to my mind when reading this thread. I have an S&W Memorial Model 25-"something or other" in .45 Long Colt. I was going to make up some, ran into the OAL problem, and called Mr. Keith out in Salmon Idaho. Well sir, he got right on the line, sort of like a hot line to heaven for me, and advised me on two methods of making this long bullet fit in the S&W cylinder. I could either trima little off the cases to a shorter than standard length if I wanted to crimp them in the crimp groove.... Or I could just seat the bullet deeeper and crimp it over the anterior edge of the base of the semiwadcutter bullet. I took the first course and have a milk jug full of those "shortened" .45 Colts down in my reloading room. Tomorrow I'm going to take the Colt NS and the S&W 25-? down there and get my dies set up and get this query clearer in my mind. Thanks so much for your response and the extra trouble you took to get those measurements. Your information is, as always insightful, prudent, and much appreciated.If I knew how to post .jpgs on the forum, I'd post some of the seated rounds with the 265gr semiwadcutter, but so far that technique has eluded me.
Jon,I think that the cylinder on your 125th Aniversary S&W is even a little shorter than the "regular" 25-5 that followed it,as it was designed to fit the longer barrel breech through the frame for the standard & shorter .45 Auto cylinder in the 25-2. Jeeze,got to talk to Elmer himself! Sometimes,when Im shooting,especially .44 Specials,in my backyard range(a BIG yard!!) I think,"wonder if Elmer would like this load/gun etc.?" You did THE RIGHT thing,cutting down the cases. Elmers idea of seating deeper,was ONLY for the converted S&W guns originally in .455 Webley ,for the Brits. in WW One. They were bored .457 on the barrel,and Elmer said the excess pressure,from the deeper seating,would have a safety valve with the larger bore,using .454 bullets. I got 3 of these S&Ws in various configurations. The N.S. tends to be .452-454 bore. Have ya tried .45 Schofield brass,from Midway yet? Thanks for the reply,and gotta love those "big bores".Bud
You are just a cornucopia of good ideas and information. I took my micrometer to those "shortened" .45 Colt cases and they average out at 1.119 inches which is pretty close to the Scholfield case. The Scholfields would never have occurred to me if you hadn't suggested it. The cylinder on the S&W 125th aniversary model mics out at 1.571", a bit shorter than the "regular 25-5's" that followed it, so again your information is right on. I ordered some of the Schofield brass this morning. It should be just the ticket for loading the long nosed 265 Keith to an acceptable OAL. Thanks.