[twaits]

The values of these seem to be rising pretty dramatically these days. It will be interesting to see how high this goes.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=381520690

 

[MtnSpur]

Hey Twaits, refresh my memory, didn't the "X" on the frame under the serial number indicate a return to the Colt factory for work or am I thinking of some other anomoly that gets all jumbled in my head? I swear I'm getting more "I used to know these things and now I don't" moments as the months progress

 

[twaits]

I'm really not sure what the X means.

 

[68python]

Hey Twaits, refresh my memory, didn't the "X" on the frame under the serial number indicate a return to the Colt factory for work or am I thinking of some other anomoly that gets all jumbled in my head? I swear I'm getting more "I used to know these things and now I don't" moments as the months progress

Think that's an S & W thing.

 

[DFrame]

Thats a REAL nice revolver.

 

[Arizona Bill]

As someone who has done a considerable amount of US Cavalry reenacting, I'm almost certain those are crossed cavalry sabers. The tips are to the left, the hilts to the right. It'll take someone with more knowledge than I have to explain sabers on a DS, but that's what they are. I can't wait to find out if someone knows why on earth they're there!

​

 

[MtnSpur]

As someone who has done a considerable amount of US Cavalry reenacting, I'm almost certain those are crossed cavalry sabers. The tips are to the left, the hilts to the right. It'll take someone with more knowledge than I have to explain sabers on a DS, but that's what they are. I can't wait to find out if someone knows why on earth they're there!

View attachment 48109​

I went back to the auction and sure enough it does appear to be crossed sabers. Not only that but it has the "T" which typically indicates targeted. So maybe a calvary/military connection? Interesting speculation on a square butt, indeed.

 

[Arizona Bill]

Here's a posting on another forum from several years ago that might provide a hint but not much more than that.

Colt Proof Marks - HuntingNet.com Forums

 

[saintclair]

Arizona Bill, great observation!! Just to add to the discussion here are pictures of my DS SN 472416 that is parkerized. I purchased it in hopes that it may have been a gun acquired by the US Gov't at the beginning of WW-2. It has the 'possible' crossed sabers, also. I have 'blown it up' as much as possible and even added 'white-out' into the numbers and the sabers.
Since this gun is >70,000 later, the die that was used may have been 'worn' quite a bit.
I have a request sent to Colt Historical for a letter. I will post that information when I receive it.

 

[Arizona Bill]

Saintclair, great stuff! I agree--the die looks pretty well shot by the time your gun was made. I can't wait to hear if Colt has any info on the marking.

 

[saintclair]

Arizona Bill, If these are US markings, I certainly hope one of the Forum members buys that Sq Butt gun on GB. Also, I think your discovery will turn out to be quite significant. I am glad you saw this. I hope kwill sees this. He has gathered quite a bit of information on such guns. In fact, I will PM him now.

 

[Ronald12]

I don't think yours is a military contract DS. It could be a marking to distinguish an arsenal refinish ,maybe to parkerize (just a thought)? This is a round butt and the U.S. Government specified a square butt configuration.On the letters from what I understand, the early U.S. government DS letters can have it noted in the ledgers identifing "furnished with square butt configuaration" but as the war progressd and orders became standardized, that entry isn't listed as that was a given concerning U.S. Government procured DS's. Ron

Arizona Bill, great observation!! Just to add to the discussion here are pictures of my DS SN 472416 that is parkerized. I purchased it in hopes that it may have been a gun acquired by the US Gov't at the beginning of WW-2. It has the 'possible' crossed sabers, also. I have 'blown it up' as much as possible and even added 'white-out' into the numbers and the sabers.
Since this gun is >70,000 later, the die that was used may have been 'worn' quite a bit.
I have a request sent to Colt Historical for a letter. I will post that information when I receive it.

 

[saintclair]

Ronald12, I fully understand your reservation about a round butt Detective Special being procured by the Government. I have followed your excellent threads on this subject and I have read Peer's book that backs your premise. I have also enjoyed interactions with Kwill who has made quite a few literary contributions in this area. His contributions also back your premise.
My personal experience from working almost 30 years with the US Government tells me that many strange things can happen during large government procurement cycles. I was involved with many. Quite often vendors will send in samples for evaluation and often those samples can become part of deliverables. I would not find it strange for one of the preliminary procurement cycles that the US Gov't initiated leading up to WW-2 for Colt to have supplied some of the round butt guns for evaluation by the procuring organization. Such items would typically never be returned to the vendor and might become part of the Gov't arsenal.
Just like we have all heard about Colt, "Never say never," I will add from my Government procurement experience to also "never say never." Strange things happen in those procurements.
I am pleased that Arizona Bill was preceptive enough to have spotted what may be 'crossed sabers' on the square butt DS that is on GB. When I saw the Thread, I recalled seeing something similar on the round butt DS I own. I am trying to recall if I have seen a large "X" on any of my other Colts, but none come to mind. Maybe this Thread will generate some inputs where other members have seen this marking.
In the meantime, I will 'keep my fingers crossed' that I will get a Colt Letter that indicates my DS might have some Gov't connection. If it does, that will be great and if it doesn't, that will be interesting.

 

[Ronald12]

I agree also. It could turn out to be another variation on Colt revolvers. If it is , I am sure there will be a dash to look at the Colts!
Concerning the round butts, there was a very very small run identified to the USMC.The link to the USMC round butt is listed below. Notice only 6 were ordered. It does not list any pics of the crane, so we don't know what kind of markings it has. Yours is close in serial number range. It would be a great find if it was one of the prototypes, but I doubt it. I would vote that is mark to denote refinish. The British also has a cross sword ordnance stamp but somewhat different. Wonder if it could be a lend lease DS? Anything is possible, but until you get the letter, it is all speculation. Even then. a letter may not go into that detail. But in the course of this thread , I will limit my post to the square butt configuration. Ron


http://www.auctionflex.com/showlot....cial&lso=timeleftasc&pagenum=1&lang=En#images

 

[Parrisjr]

Saintclair,

On the bright side, yours falls in the correct serial number range for government issue Good luck with the letter!

 

[saintclair]

Parrisjr & Ronald12; It is always nice to have hope! My odds are better than winning a Lottery. I would not know anything about such guns if it were not for the people on the Forum. I figure my odds at 1 in 5,000. I bought the gun because of the serial number range. It has definitely been redone by an arsenal or someone. It has seen lots of use. That sounds like the USMC.
It is great to be a member of the Forum.

 

[Cruiser RN]

I have my wonderful stable of D.S. Snubbies,my 1968 D.S. that was my instructors BUG and Off Duty, a 1971 Nickle D.S. that I picked up for 325 dollars due to bad pictures and the finish was perfect, and a 1960 Cobra.If there was no Mrs CRN gun ban this one with the square butt would be mine.I hope a Forum member gets it

 

[Ronald12]

Another forum member has this one listed on GB:
Colt Detective Special, early 1929 production : Curios & Relics at GunBroker.com

 

[kwill]

Well, since I've been called out--ON CHRISTMAS DAY--I guess I should respond.

First of all, I'm quite skeptical of that 'X' being anything other than an 'X.' It is the final acceptance mark and I think it went on just before the gun was proof fired and stamped with the VP.

Secondly, there was a small batch of round butt guns that went to the Navy--10, as I recall--so it's possible that 472416 is one of those. Or not.

With all due respect I would discourage speculation about "arsenal refinish" or lend-lease possibilities. The LL option is really far-fetched. That's how internet rumors get started.

Sorry if I'm sounding like the Grinch. I've got my fingers crossed that 472416 is a rare Navy revolver.

Merry Christmas,
Kevin Williams

 

[Ronald12]

I think you are referring to my comment. I in no way wanted or intended to start an"internet rumor". It was merely thinking out loud. All I said was, the British has a proof with cross swords. I did not (and if it was taken that way, I apologize) want folks to think this was a lend lease revolver. As far as a refinish, the square butt DS in the govenment serial range were blue and since this has a round butt and is parkerized , that is what led me to believe the refinish comment. I regret my comments caused the concern.
From now, I will refrain from making comments or providing advice. I will leave it to the experts who know more than I do. I won't post links to revolvers either.
Ron