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Discussion Starter #1
I'm thinking about a .25 Colt pocket pistol or a .380. Thoughts as protection guns? How are they to actually carry? I'm thinking, "bullet placement," is the key. Do these guns have any accuracy for short range? How do they compare to a detective special? (Yeah, I know, ... Patton doesn't REALLY shoot down a plane with one!)
 

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I'va carried a Colt .32 ACP hammerless for many years. Its flat, convenient, easy to carry, and 100% reliable with the WW ball ammo I utilize.

A physician friend carries an older Colt .25 auto, and is quite comfortable with it. He does avoid biker bars.
 

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I own samples of both 25ACP models Colt produced. I can't recommend this as a self defense arm (because they lack stopping power) except that they are so easy to carry you'll not likely fail to be armed should you ever need to be. Accuracy is adequate within 10 yards or so. The older pistol has a far better fit & finish than does the Astra made product of the 60's & 70's.

There are several models of 380 to choose from. The M1908 (380), a "big brother" to the M1903 (32 ACP) that jerry8stl mentioned above is essentially a 380 in the 32 package. If your taste runs to a bit bulkier package, any of the more recent models (Government, Pony and Mustang) will do. All are reliable, all have performed well for me with at least one commercial load as well as handloads.

Bob
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Well, Sir, as I'm not planning any assaults on biker bars in the near future, I guess I'll be all right! Thanks for the words - you're a Gentleman and a Scholar! <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jerry6stl:
I'va carried a Colt .32 ACP hammerless for many years. Its flat, convenient, easy to carry, and 100% reliable with the WW ball ammo I utilize.

A physician friend carries an older Colt .25 auto, and is quite comfortable with it. He does avoid biker bars.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
 

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While I can't speak as to .32 and .380s I would not recommend .22s and .25s as use for defense at anytime. I personally know a man who was shot in the head with a .25 in a bar fight and didn't even know he was shot until after he had beat the $%&* out of the guy that shot him! While these very small guns are easy to carry they offer very little in the way of protection and with the very nice (and small) .32s and .380s (Kel-tec for one) on the market now I can't see any reason to carry a .25 at all.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Yeah, I'm sure you're right, 45 man. I'm kinda stuck ... I like the old Colts. I trust them to WORK. I know, too, from experience one shouldn't bet one's bacon on a .38 special, even, but ... I just think the old, flat, autos would be easy to hide. Nothing would suit me better than to carry the thing for 100 years and never need it. Nobody'll know it's there but me. The .380/.32's are just a bit too long for my pockets. The .38 snub, too round. That leaves the .25. One of the other guys suggested a Walther TPH, which I'd never heard of and it's hardly a Colt but they are good guns, aren't they? Thanks for your info. I'm still working on this one. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 45automaticman:
While I can't speak as to .32 and .380s I would not recommend .22s and .25s as use for defense at anytime. I personally know a man who was shot in the head with a .25 in a bar fight and didn't even know he was shot until after he had beat the $%&* out of the guy that shot him! While these very small guns are easy to carry they offer very little in the way of protection and with the very nice (and small) .32s and .380s (Kel-tec for one) on the market now I can't see any reason to carry a .25 at all.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
 

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I'd like to add my two pennies here as well. I went through the same thing a couple of years back and you run into guys that will tell you nothing short of a 45 acp will do and other guys who will tell you that a 32 acp will be ok with the right cartridge (Winchester Silvertips). I have Colts in 25 acp and 32 acp and a mint Savage 1915 in 32 acp. They are fun to practice with and because of this, I think I got pretty good with the 32s, but I never was very confident about them. The 25 is just too small - I also heard a story from a cop friend where an overweight woman came in to the precinct where he worked to press charges against her husband because he shot her and proceeded to show the officers 6 bloody holes in her chest and belly where she was hit with a 25 acp - not exactly knock down power.

I carry a Sig 239 now in 357sig and will probably carry my 45 acp Colt Lightweight Commander too, once I get use to it. It's all about confidence in the pistol and the cartridge. I think both of these rounds will knock someone down for good. As far as biker bars go, I'd suggest a Thompson Machine Gun with a drum magazine.

John
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Hey, John L., I'll volunteer for your biker bar detail! Tell me more about your light weight Commander? The oldies always intrigue me and the new ones in the catalogue are gorgeous ... Tell me more? How's it group?
 

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I used to carry a Colt 1908 .380 or a DS when I was off duty. Never had a problem with either one. Most confrontations cease when any firearm is suprisingly produced. In twenty five years, I have seen more Hombres sent for a dirt nap with .22's, .25's and 32's over any other caliber. Ask any emergency room physician and he will tell you that internal bleeding, (Caused by smaller calibers) is very hard to repair or stop.... Steve B.
 

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rcambold,

See the "which Commander" thread with my name on it for the gory details - a Combat Commander marked slide with a LW frame. The pistol is fine out to 25 yards (everything in a 6" circle off-hand) but then the groups spread a bit with more distance. This probably has to do more with yours truly. It's a well-made, beautiful, light pistol that packs a punch, but it's a handful and practizing with it can be painful after the first 50 rounds. Other than the SIG I mentioned in the previous post I can't think of anything I'd rather have in a dangerous situation.

Steve B. - I once had a 1908 Hammerless in 380 also and it's one of those guns I always regret trading - nickel with real medallion pearl grips.

John
 

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i have a pony pocketlite DAO .380 that i think the world of. i carry it when my glock-27 .40 is too bulky.all the controls are in the same places as the glock so all my drills are the same. (smaller bang) they are getting somewhat hard to find, my brother wanted one and right after he bought a keltec one turned up at a gunshop i stopped in at. oh well.
 

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Good Morning,
Saw the referance above to Walther TPH .22. Great gun - poor caliber for defense. - Better than nothing, though

CAUTION Any and all Walther German mfgd. and current S&W versions are very well thought of. Interarms manufactured ones are very inconsistent and cannot be relied on - (i.e. DO NOT Buy any Interarms mfgd. Walther.)
Good Luck, Ed
 

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[ QUOTE ]
I once had a 1908 Hammerless in 380 also and it's one of those guns I always regret trading - nickel with real medallion pearl grips.<P>John

[/ QUOTE ]

Ouch, that sucks.
 

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If you like to play with older guns, fine, but if you actually are looking for day-to-day protection, consider something modern. In the very small category (Model N size) are the Kel-Tec P32 (.32ACP) and P3AT (.380ACP). They only weigh about 6 ounces unloaded, are very thin and small, and both are locked breech so recoil is substantially less than the bigger blow backs like the PPK, Colt 1908, etc.. If something larger in the Model M size category is acceptable, then try a Kel-Tec P11, where you get 10+1 of 9x19 in a package smaller and lighter than the Model M.

The safeties on the Models M and N are so small as to be difficult to work, which might be a factor in rapid deployment. Sights are also poor. Reliability is questionable with some modern hollow point ammunition.

By carrying something new, you also will not deteriorate the condition of another fine old Model M or N or the like.

The TPH mentioned above is a great gun, but it is a .22LR, and, unless you have a German one with the alloy frame, it is much heavier than the Kel-Tecs, and it is also substantially bigger. The stainless TPH is as heavy as an Airweight J-frame Smith and nearly as large, although thinner.

Of course, always think "bullet placement," but also think of the most effective delivery system, and that is not a century-old design. (Government Model fans, no need to defend your design in this discussion.)

I have all the guns mentioned above except the Savage, and I choose the Kel-Tecs in their size/power categories over all others for carry use.
 

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[ QUOTE ]
I used to carry a Colt 1908 .380 or a DS when I was off duty. Never had a problem with either one. Most confrontations cease when any firearm is suprisingly produced. In twenty five years, I have seen more Hombres sent for a dirt nap with .22's, .25's and 32's over any other caliber. Ask any emergency room physician and he will tell you that internal bleeding, (Caused by smaller calibers) is very hard to repair or stop.... Steve B.

[/ QUOTE ]


Steve:
How did you carry the Colt 1908 with a striker?
Loaded mag and empty chamber?
 

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I use to own a Colt jr. in 25acp.Can get them fairly cheap,and they're a handsome gun,with lines of the 1911,,,,,well sort of.It was pretty accurate.I just thought I'd rather have a centerfire over a rimfire 22 when I had the gun.It never failed to fire till the day I sold it.
 

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Thats a fine looking PPK and will still be around when the KelTec is in trash. A KT in 380 does not have the power of the PPK because of shorter barrel Also some of us like the weight and feel of a real steel pistol not plastic.I find a few more oz no big deal .and many other people agree with me as S&W is selling a lot of the new ones. I carry a PPK/S dailey and it has worked and never beem a problem in nearly 30 years. But a new PPK and a new KT shoot both egually and see which breaks ,wears out first. The PPK will still be running when KT is needing a overhaul. One is made to keep and enjoy and pass on to a family member. Other is well just made.
I have a Mustang and would carry it more if parts weren't getting so scarce. (thanks a lot Colt)
 

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I've owned this .380 for about 20 yrs . It always works . However , I've never carried it . I'm sure with a good holster it would be fine . Little too big for front pocket carry imo .



 

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[ QUOTE ]

Steve:
How did you carry the Colt 1908 with a striker?
Loaded mag and empty chamber?

[/ QUOTE ]

The M1908 .380 utilizes a hammer and firing pin . The M1908 .25 has a striker I believe .

Hope this helps .
 
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