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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
At today's gun show I picked up a minty 1924 Police Positive .22LR target model. I checked the pricing in the latest Blue Book and thought $490 was a good price. Now I'm at home surfing the auction sites and realize that I over paid. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

The strange thing is that there is a small 6-pointed star on the right side where the frame meets up with the rear trigger guard. This gun is not a refinish. Does anyone know what this stamp is all about? I don't see it on other guns. I'll post a photo later.
 

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Don't know anything about the star, but I'm not so sure you overpaid if it's real mint. In my post about the PP .32, Robba mentioned there were far less models made in .32 and .22 and that $450 was a good price. I think you probably did okay. The Blue Book doesn't seem to mean much in today's market.
 

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I would have paid the same price in a heartbeat. The 22 LR. Police Positive targets I have seen have had the heck shot out of them. Kind of scarce that old, in that condition.

That early a gun, mint, send it to me, I'll remit your purchase price plus 10%, plus shipping!

Check the price when the new blue book comes out.
 

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i would agree the price sounds fair for condition listed. the star located on the left side{latch side} at rear of triggerguard??
 

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Ditto. I see them priced $500 and up in far less than mint condition. I would have sprained a wrist getting to my wallet for a mint original at $490.... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

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You did OK. The last ones I saw around here were at a show, from the same seller, one was $900 without a box and the other was $1200 with a box.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
What do you make of this stamp?

 

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Hi Kevin,
The six pointed star is a factory rework mark. It, along with an ampersand "&" are marks used by Colt to show that a gun was sent to the factory for some type of repair or refinish.Both marks are found but never together... Hope that helps... Bob Best.

Check your email on the forum...
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I'll shoot more photo's. It's not a refinish so it must have had work done. Does this include warrantee work? I am also questioning the location of the stamp. It seems a rework stamp would be placed under the stocks or on the butt.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Evidence shows that this gun is not a refinish. Factory rework maybe. Click on the photos on the host page to explode the views.

 

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Hi Kevin,

You said:

"I'll shoot more photo's. It's not a refinish so it must have had work done. Does this include warrantee work?"

I would assume so, but I have never had "factory work" seperated out for me. I would guess it was any kind of work that required an inspection after it was completed.

I'm not trying to be insulting or anything, but how would you be able to tell if the factory refinished it or not if the factory did the job in the first place??? I would be willing to bet that both finishes met factory specifications.

I have a number of Colt DA Army contract revolvers that were refinished by Colt for the Army. I know the work was done as I have found records of it in both the Colt factory shipping records I've studied and in the Army contract records in the National archives. The finish work is the same on the refinished guns as on some of my examples that were never refinished.

You said:

"I am also questioning the location of the stamp. It seems a rework stamp would be placed under the stocks or on the butt."

Colt did not care what collectors today thought about their marking practices...They were in the business to make money in the most economical fashion they could. They placed the stamps where they could be verified.

In most cases the assembler's and final inspectors makings appeared on the LEFT side front and rear trigger guard web of pre war revolvers...You will find the Verified Proof mark there after 1904 also. Colt wanted their customers to know that the gun was inspected and had passed a rigorous inspection... That's why they called it the "Verified Proof" and documented it in their advertising.

Rework markings appeared on the RIGHT rear trigger guard web ... The marks changed from time to time... There was the ampersand and the six pointed star that I am familiar with. I have several examples of both markings in a variety of Colt revolvers from the pre-war period...Bob Best
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not trying to be insulting or anything, but how would you be able to tell if the factory refinished it or not if the factory did the job in the first place??? I would be willing to bet that both finishes met factory specifications.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've seen factor refinishes and they are awesome. But never has stamping been left sharp. I don't see it possible to refinish and not remove the "high's" of the stamping....even by Colt.
 

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Kevin,

I say again "How do you know this is the first finish or the second finish Colt put on the gun???" In either case the current finish would have passed Colt's final inspection and would be of the same quality and style as would be found on any of their other guns of that period...

So, I must say that I don't see any evidence in your photos to say that this is the first, the second or maybe even the third COLT FACTORY FINISH to appear on this gun. If I had the gun in front of me to examine in person, all I could say for sure is that the finish appears to be A COLT FACTORY finsh! I can't tell you whether it might be the first one or the second one or the third one ect applied by the COLT FACTORY. Bob Best
 

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Cripes, Kevin, quit worrying

Looks like the star is stamped over the bluing, so I don't believe its been refinished.

Probably went back for a timing issue or some such minor thing. You are anal-izing it far to much. Like I said, I'll be glad to take it off your hands.




.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
[ QUOTE ]
Cripes, Kevin, quit worrying

[/ QUOTE ] /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Us quality guys worry about everything. LOL
 

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Kevin,
Colt generally re-polished their work and re-rolled the markings when a gun was refinished ... As an example, examine a Colt DA New Navy contract revolver that was reworked to the Model 1895 specifications by the Colt Factory for the Navy ... You will see that the original barrel address with the 1888 patent date has been changed. Colt polished out the 1888 patent date and rerolled the barrels with a new version containing the Model 1895 patent date... There are other military contracts for the Army where this type of work was done also...It was certainly done on civilian guns as well... and "Yes, Colt WAS that good!" Bob Best
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
[ QUOTE ]
Colt generally re-polished their work and re-rolled the markings when a gun was refinished.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct me if I'm wrong but re-rolling the markings was standard procedure many decades ago. Today (and recent decades) it was block sand over the markings and call it good.
 

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Hi Kevin,
I think a 1924 Police Positive .22 Target qualifies as "many decades old" don't you?

While this came from the S&W collector's association website, Roy Jinks recently related on their forum that he put a stop to S&W's refinishing old S&W revolvers because the company was rerolling current markings onto older S&Ws that were sent in to be refurbished, which he believed destroyed their collector value. While this is a different company it seems that S&W was removing markings, refinishing the guns and rerolling current S&W marks onto them quite recently... If Roy Jinks is to be believed... And I do believe him...
I don't know what Colt is currently doing or even if they refinish older Colts anymore and I must admit that I do very little in the way of collecting any Colts newer than about 1950 except for the single actions.

As for the rework ampersand and six pointed star... both of them disappeared from Colt guns prior to World War II as far as I have been able to determine. Now days, I believe that the work order number from the repair invoice is stamped under the grips or between the trigger guard housing and the frame on the 2nd and 3rd generation SAAs...

I don't know how post 1950 DA revolver are marked that have been sent in for repair/refinish. When I visited the factory in 2003, I didn't see any repair station type work going on in either the Custom Shop or the production portion of the factory... so, I can't comment on the "block sanding" technique you mentioned... Bob Best
 
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