Please help me identify my 1911

2070 Views 16 Replies 9 Participants Last post by SCone, Aug 13, 2013

HelpInspire

Discussion Starter · Aug 12, 2013

Hello everyone. I'll be honest my knowledge on 1911's is limited and I could use your help identifying what exactly I have. This 1911 came for a locked up gun chest my grandfather had stored away. I know it's in need of a good cleaning, but I wanted to grab some photos before I proceeded. I have quite a few photos to upload so I'll make a few posts to upload them all.

Some details I have found on the gun.

I was unable to locate a serial number on the lower, but I was able to find a '3' located behind the firing pin.
Also on the upper's underside a 'G'
(dashes used to separate lines) The upper's markings along the side read "MODEL OF 19911 U.S. ARMY" and "PATENTED APR.20,1897. SEPT.9,1902 - DEC.19,1905 FEB.14 1911. AUG.19,1913 - COLT'S PT F.A.MFG.CO. - HARTFORD,CT.U.S.A."
On the lower I did find what appears to be an armory stamp and a number by the trigger '47'
It has the heart shape cut in the handle
The barrel has two letters on it, on letter for each side 'P' and 'S'

If you could please help me put some dates to these items that would be wonderful. I am aware this very much could be a lunch box gun, but I would rather leave it up to the experts to determine that. Thanks in advance.

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HelpInspire

Discussion Starter · #2 · Aug 12, 2013

Additional photos.

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HelpInspire

Discussion Starter · #3 · Aug 12, 2013

Additional photos.

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Bigfifty

· #4 · Aug 12, 2013

Just a guess, but it looks as though it has had a vigorous sanding and a re-blue. Maybe that's why the serial number is not present on the right-side of the frame (???)

HelpInspire

Discussion Starter · #5 · Aug 12, 2013

The only facts I have to go on is my grandfather was a veteran of WWII and he acquired this 1911 shortly after. The gun to him was a show piece and therefore was never shot by him, not sure about previous owners, and later in life wrapped it up safely in an old WWII water tight metal box. It lay there until about a week ago.

dfariswheel

· #6 · Aug 12, 2013 (Edited)

Here's the BAD news.
The serial number and the US Property stamp have been removed from the frame.
The serial number and Property stamp were originally stamped on the right side of the frame, just above the grip screw bushing.
This is unfortunately not that uncommon for guns that were "brought home" (stolen) from the military. People assumed that if the serial number and US Property stamp were removed, no one could prove it was stolen government property.
This is why Federal law was changed to make possession of a gun with a defaced, altered, or removed serial number a felony crime.

Removal of the serial number made this an illegal gun to have in your possession, no matter who did it, or when.
Federal law is clear that any firearm that ever had a serial number (and this one certainly did) is an illegal gun. This is also a State crime in all 50 states.
Get caught and you will be arrested and very probably either plead guilty or get sentenced to prison.

There's is however an "out", and that is to contact the ATF and have them assign a new serial number that will be stamped on the frame, making it a legal gun again.

Here's the relevant information.

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PLEASE understand that this is no BS. This is a very serious situation and you can be in REAL trouble with the Feds or local law enforcement.
As far as the law is concerned, this is about on the same level as having a stolen gun.
Get caught with it, and the gun will be confiscated and destroyed and you'll be charged with a Felony.
This means that you'll forever lose any right to own a gun.

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Mike Faires

· #7 · Aug 12, 2013

It's a 1918/1919 military by the heart shaped frame cuts. Should have a serial number and US property marking. If the serial number is gone, big trouble.

HelpInspire

Discussion Starter · #8 · Aug 13, 2013

Thank you for the information and I will take your advice to get it registered. If I may ask what will the imprinting of a new serial do to the value of the gun or is the value already lost due to the removal of the serial in the first place? Understand I'm not looking into this to sell it, but to determine if it's value should keep me from shooting it. To keep as a show piece or a fun gun at the range. Thanks for all your help.

dogface6

· #9 · Aug 13, 2013

With no serial number, you can forget retail value.

Right now, it's worth what the parts might bring - without the frame.

JohnnyP

· #10 · Aug 13, 2013

Better read the letter carefully. First they determine if the pistol originally had a serial number, then they decide if it was accidentally removed, and with virtually all the markings removed it does not appear to have been accidental. It appears that the Y in property may still be on the left forward part of the receiver, but the picture is too dark to tell.

Similar to what Forrest Gump said, it's like a box of chocolates, you never know what you will get. Maybe they will issue a new serial number, and then again they may not.

dogface6

· #11 · Aug 13, 2013

With no serial number, you can forget retail value.

Right now, it's worth what the heavily refinshed parts might bring - without the frame.

geraldo

· #12 · Aug 13, 2013

After you get a new number call Caspian and ask for Gary he might be able to put the new # on it for you and make it look nice again !

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JohnnyP

· #13 · Aug 13, 2013

No matter how done, if first approved, the BATF serial number won't look good.

Bigfifty

· #14 · Aug 13, 2013

JohnnyP said:
Better read the letter carefully. First they determine if the pistol originally had a serial number, then they decide if it was accidentally removed, and with virtually all the markings removed it does not appear to have been accidental. It appears that the Y in property may still be on the left forward part of the receiver, but the picture is too dark to tell.

Similar to what Forrest Gump said, it's like a box of chocolates, you never know what you will get. Maybe they will issue a new serial number, and then again they may not.

Come on..."if the pistol originally had a serial number"....if ??, How many Colt pistols/revolver have you ever seen without a serial number??? (that's legal?) "Maybe they will issue a new serial number," come on guy get real.

Oyeboten

· #15 · Aug 13, 2013

I have heard anectdoal testimonies of the BATF issueing a new Serial Number, for an old Gun which had suffered the original Serial Number being ground off or obliterated.

From what I gather, the process of petitioning for this is best done through a Licensed Gunsmith who is familiar with the procedure of presenting the issue to the BAFT, whom the BAFT then authorizes to stamp the 'new' Serial Number.

BATF Documentation of the authorization and new Number issuance, should be kept with the Gun of course, since the 'new' Number will not be like those Serial Numbers which would otherwise be found on a Colt m1911 Pistol.

JohnnyP

· #16 · Aug 13, 2013

Bigfifty said:
Come on..."if the pistol originally had a serial number"....if ??, How many Colt pistols/revolver have you ever seen without a serial number??? (that's legal?) "Maybe they will issue a new serial number," come on guy get real.

I don't determine that. The BATF determines that, and I don't know how many they have seen. I have already seen one pistol authenticated by them as never having a serial number which I know did. A 1911A1 doesn't pass inspection and acceptance without a serial number. Read the letter.

SCone

· #17 · Aug 13, 2013 (Edited)

Friend had a pistol that was ATF stamped... serial number was ATF3006 if I remember correct...

Think he said he had to send the gun to ATF, they stamped it and sent it back to him.... but it took forever.....

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