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· The Consummate Collector
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was able to add another pre Detective Special to the collection so thought I would post a few photo's. The gun that I just added is the wood grip gun in the photo and is Detroit Police marked. It is serial number 352xxx while the gun with the ivory grips is serial number 339xxx. Note the two different frame sizes (narrow and wide butt).


 

· The Consummate Collector
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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Colt guy,

I have a Detroit Police Pre-detective as well - Number 5136 !!! - serial #3519xx - small world.

John

John. That is amazing, your Department number is consecutive to mine. Does it have Detroit Police on the backstrap like mine? There were 75 guns shipped in the same shipment to the Detroit Police from Colt. If it is ever for sale please let me know, it would be nice to have a matching pair. Thanks for sharing.
 

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Your D.P.D. Colts are real nice!

Here is a Colt Detective Special D.P.D. from 1930.
I had to check my records, but the only information from the Detroit Police Firearms Inventory was this Colt was sold from the D.P.D. on 06/05/1963 for $35.00 to an unknown.





 

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The Proofhouse suggests a 1928 DOB for mine but if I remember correctly the Colt letter had an earlier date. Of course, I can't put my hands on this letter right now but I'll look for it.

John
 

· The Consummate Collector
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Colt Detroit Police Marked

This is great, three DPD marked guns. Nice information. According to the person that I purchased the gun from Colt told him that the gun shipped in 1926 (This would be correct for a pre Detective Special) and it was one of 75 in the shipment. The Detroit Police Department then sold the gun in 1960.
 

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Each time these "Pre-Detective Special" come up, the time of their production comes up. Most were made in 1926 with 1928-era serial number ranges. For reasons unknown, that is what Colt did with special runs. For reasons unknow, apparently a serial number range not yet reached was selected and applied to these special runs.
 

· The Consummate Collector
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Each time these "Pre-Detective Special" come up, the time of their production comes up. Most were made in 1926 with 1928-era serial number ranges. For reasons unknown, that is what Colt did with special runs. For reasons unknow, apparently a serial number range not yet reached was selected and applied to these special runs.

Gary, Well put. All of mine letter to 1926. I think I remember Hugh Clark's as lettering to 1926 as well. I think you have at least one of these, correct? I assume it is also 1926. The Colt Forum is just invaluable for retrieving this type of information. How else would you ever find someone who has another gun that is numbered next to yours.
 

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Yes, I have one, as do several others here. I recently had an exchange with Frank Gaetje, who has written several articles for The Rampant Colt, the Colt Collectors Association publication, concerning these guns and Detective Specials. (See Summer 2007, a letter published Fall 2007 and another loosely related article published Winter 2008.) Frank touts them as very rare. While these guns are rare, I have seen too many of them for them to be "Super Rare." Frank claims they letter as Detective Specials, because the three he had, so lettered. I disagreed with that since mine lettered as a Police Positive Special. I believe that Ms. Hoyt has made an editorial decision to letter these guns as Detective Specials, which I believe is highly incorrect, since the name did not exist when the guns were built in 1926. They are what the are, which is Police Positive Specials with 2-inch barrels. (As further evidence, someone here has a 2-inch PPS box.) Frank sent me a copy of the July 1926 advertisement announcing the 2-inch PPS, which I think is determinative of the name issue.

Mine (3400XX) lettered as being shipped December 29, 1926 (late in 1926, but still 1926!) to Russell Sporting Goods Company, with no address available. It was a one-gun shipment, processed under Order Number 12032/100. (I always assumed the "100" might have been the number of guns of that type in the special run. Wonder if I am right on that?) In Frank's article, one of these guns (342099? - can't tell for sure from the scan Frank sent me. I can tell that the order number has a "/25" on the end of it, indicating to me that the number of guns in that run was 25.) is shown with its letter, and the ship date is December 15, 1926. If I am right on reading the serial number, notice how far ahead of mine it is in serial number, yet shipped 14 days earlier. I am guessing that a lot of these guns were shipped late in the year as demand grew in response to the announcement advertisement, and word of mouth.

When I ran onto mine about 30 years ago, I wondered what it was. I checked TBOCF and it mentioned that 2-inch PPS revolvers were "rare," but nothing else, as is too common with TBOCF. That was enough for me and I bought it, wondering still just what it was. The hand-stamped barrel marking really intrigued me. After getting my letter, I never saw another until the last year or two when they came up as a subject on these boards, and, as a result of those discussions, I think I understand more about these neat guns. (Thank you fellow board members!) Now here are two more, with the same ship destination!

One of you guys with the consecutive inventory numbers should buy from or sell to the other! Or both to me!
 

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Question: Is any PPS with a 2" barrel considered a pre-DS if the barrel is not marked DS?

Also, what is the highest serial number known for a pre-DS. A buddy of mine just picked up a DS with a 399XXX SN dating to 1930. Barrel is marked DS.
 

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I think the consensus here is that any of these not marked DS are considered PPS's (or pre-DS's) regardless of the factory letter. The highest serial range might be tough, as the Judge pointed out these numbers were pulled out of sequence.

I have an article from the May 1995 Gun Report about these scanned, but it is in a .pdf format and I can't attach it here. Any computer guys know how I could attach it? Thanks...
 

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BW, this article mentions the order number mentioned in my letter on my example of these Pre-DS guns! Could you please email me a copy? I tried printing from the thumbnails, but it does not work well.

I took the Gun Report in the 1970s, but never kept it up. My loss.
 

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Aquired a nice Detroit Police Department Colt Detective Special.
Engraved on the back strap "DETROIT POLICE".
Serial #40314x
Inventory #6421
Manufactured 1931
Notice the two "blued" screws on the left side of frame(?)





 

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grip size question

Hello, coltguy. I'm new to the site, but I can already see that you are one of the go-to guys for questions on Colt's DA arcana. My arcane question is: the Detroit PD pre-DS you showed has, as you pointed out, the ¼"-extra widebutt grip. I had thought that, by definition, the 1926 pre-DS 2"-barreled Police Positive Special had the narrower grip (and lacked the "Detective Special" stamp on the bbl.). Obviously, I'm wrong, but just what is/are the distinction(s) between a 1926 2"-barreled pre-DS Police Positive Special and a pure 1928 DS? I ask because I'm looking for a 1926 pre-DS, and, apparently, I'm less able to recognize the real thing than I had thought.

Thank you. And pleased to meet you.

Best,

Glenn

I was able to add another pre Detective Special to the collection so thought I would post a few photo's. The gun that I just added is the wood grip gun in the photo and is Detroit Police marked. It is serial number 352xxx while the gun with the ivory grips is serial number 339xxx. Note the two different frame sizes (narrow and wide butt).


 

· The Consummate Collector
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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
Colt's Pre-Detective Special

Glenn. Welcome to the Forum and I will try to shed a little light on the subject. The number one give-a-way to the Pre-Detective Special is the marking on the barrel. It will just say: .38 SPECIAL on the left side of the barrel. The Colt name along with the address information and patent dates are not marked on the right side of the barrel as they are on the Detective Special. These Pre-Detective Specials were in fact a Police Positive Special with a 2" barrel. They were made in 1926-1927 before Colt introduced the Detective Special in 1928. The width of the butt could be either the narrow or wide version depending on when they were shipped. The frames changed from narrow to wide at this time in Colt's manufacturing. It's my opinion that Colt assembled and sold several of these with the narrow butt and then switched to the wider butt when the old frames were used up. I have seen the Per-Detective Special's with both style frames so if you want to be complete you need to collect one of each. The narrow butt would most likely have the hard rubber grips and the wider butt will have the wooden grips. While I have not seen any Pre-Detective Specials with the narrow butt frame and wooden grips it is possible that they do exist. I do show a Police Positive Special with the narrow grip frame and wood grips. If they do exist they would most likely have the deep set medallions and forward facing Rampant Colt horses. The following photo will show each:

I hope this answers your questions.
 
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