Pre-Detective Special

4110 Views 26 Replies 13 Participants Last post by Malysh, Jun 27, 2017

Olddog84

Discussion Starter · Apr 26, 2017

I have a 1st year production Pre-Detective Special that I believe I am going to put up for auction. Picture attached. Does anyone know what they are going for currently? Comes with factory letter.
Thanks,
Mike

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Kahrman

· #21 · May 10, 2017

Malysh said:
Neither gun posted can conclusively be called factory 2"bbl. Police Positive Specials because they both have the wider 1 7/8" square butts, instead of the older narrow 1 9/16" square butts. The butt configuration is just as an important feature as the barrel markings are. The wider square butts were introduced in 1928. The SN quoted by the original poster is also from 1928. Some "Pre Detective Specials" were shipped by the 2nd quarter of 1926 and all of 1927. By 1928, the revolvers had wider square butts and were officially called Detective Specials. They had a serrated matte top strap sight channel, a checkered trigger, the wide square butt, and the iconic pre WWII 38 Detective Special barrel stamping.

I see the barrel would be correct for a factory 2" bbl. Police Positive Special, but it could just be a left over 1927 barrel which Colt used on a first year (1928) Detective Special. If the 2nd gun doesn't have a narrow square butt, a smooth top strap, and smooth trigger, it is not a "Pre" Detective Special despite the correct barrel. We can't see the top strap or the trigger in the pictures. But without seeing them, the barrel marking alone doesn't make the gun a "Pre" or transitional D.S. model. We need pictures of the aforementioned parts and the factory letter.
With the wide butts, I don't think they will have all the correct criteria.

Criteria and dates, etc. are from Gary Peer's excellent " The Colt Double Action Snub-Nose (Pocket) Revolver" book, and my own humble observations collecting these guns over the past 10 years.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, it's most probably 1st year Detective Special with a year earlier barrel. Still a valuable Colt, but not the same as a "Pre Detective Special" aka factory 2" bbl. Police Positive Special.

Great information. Thank you.

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Malysh

· #22 · May 10, 2017

Kahrman, we are all students, but thanks for your kind comment.

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WinstonWolfe

· #23 · May 10, 2017 (Edited)

My Pre-Detective on correct narrow grip frame with non-serrated trigger and polished top strap.

I bid on the one that just sold on GB too, but I thought that for the condition going above $3,000 was unreasonable.

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twaits

· #24 · May 10, 2017

Do you have a picture of the letter? Doesn't Peers book state that there are some Detective specials that have the skinny grip frame? Is it possible there could also be some 2" PPS revolvers with the wide grip frame if Colt used up some old barrels when it was manufactured? I can't remember if Peer reported any known wide butt 2" PPS revolvers.

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Malysh

· #25 · May 10, 2017 (Edited)

I re-read the pertinent chapter in Gary's book to refresh my memory before my last post.
Gary does not state any 1928 or newer Detective Specials had narrow square butts. He also hadn't found any factory 2" bbl. Police Positive Specials with the wide square butt.
In fact, he states the entire model range of 4,5, and 6 inch barrel Police Positive Specials were uniformally mfg. with the wide 1 7/8" square butt starting in 1928, in support of his observations that the narrow 1 9/16" square butt is a feature exclusively found on the factory 2" bbl. Police Positive Specials and pre 1928 Police Positive Specials, no matter which barrel length.

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hossfol43

· #26 · Jun 27, 2017 (Edited)

Malysh said:
Neither gun posted can conclusively be called factory 2"bbl. Police Positive Specials because they both have the wider 1 7/8" square butts, instead of the older narrow 1 9/16" square butts. The butt configuration is just as an important feature as the barrel markings are. The wider square butts were introduced in 1928. The SN quoted by the original poster is also from 1928. Some "Pre Detective Specials" were shipped by the 2nd quarter of 1926 and all of 1927. By 1928, the revolvers had wider square butts and were officially called Detective Specials. They had a serrated matte top strap sight channel, a checkered trigger, the wide square butt, and the iconic pre WWII 38 Detective Special barrel sta

I see the barrel would be correct for a factory 2" bbl. Police Positive Special, but it could just be a left over 1927 barrel which Colt used on a first year (1928) Detective Special. If the 2nd gun doesn't have a narrow square butt, a smooth top strap, and smooth trigger, it is not a "Pre" Detective Special despite the correct barrel. We can't see the top strap or the trigger in the pictures. But without seeing them, the barrel marking alone doesn't make the gun a "Pre" or transitional D.S. model. We need pictures of the aforementioned parts and the factory letter.
With the wide butts, I don't think they will have all the correct criteria.

Criteria and dates, etc. are from Gary Peer's excellent " The Colt Double Action Snub-Nose (Pocket) Revolver" book, and my own humble observations collecting these guns over the past 10 years.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, it's most probably 1st year Detective Special with a year earlier barrel. Still a valuable Colt, but not the same as a "Pre Detective Special" aka factory 2" bbl. Police Positive Special.