May have an opp. to get this neat 1911 from a friend. Its about 80% shoots well. I have know of this one for a long time and have tried to get it, but no go. Some things have changed and it may get to go in my safe. no box no papers, this guy is a close friend and I want to offer what its worth. any thoughts would be nice
Pre series 70 9mm colt commander
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Is it blued or satin nickel? Original grips? Have the sights been modified? Generally the 9mm commanders seem to bring a premium in the earlier pistols. It is rare to find one below 900 without box/docs from what I have seen. I would think one in 80% blue would be between 800-1000 imho, but I am no expert.
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80% falls between NRA "good" and "very good". Hard to tell with no pics, but to me 80% can mean a little on the rough side. Is that worth 800 - 1000 dollars?
Also I would think it more correct to call it a pre-series 80 Commander as there were no series 70 Commanders.
Also I would think it more correct to call it a pre-series 80 Commander as there were no series 70 Commanders.
First of all, no commercial Colt Model O pistol carries a name of "1911" (except the recent reproductions). "1911" is a military designation only, and should not be used in connection with a commercial pistol.
Until relatively recently, the names for the 4.25-inch Model O pistols were either "Commander" or "Combat Commander." The former has an aluminum alloy frame, while the latter has a steel frame.
The collet bushing is what makes a Model O a "Series 70." The Commander and Combat Commander have never had a collet bushing so cannot be "Series 70" pistols. Notice that there is no "Series 70" marking on any Commander or Combat Commander, unlike a Series 70 Government Model or Gold Cup that is marked "Mark IV/ Series '70" on the slide. The always unreliable "Blue Book" makes the improper reference to "Series 70" and "Pre-Series 70" Commanders, which undoubtedly is a factor that has caused some to use this incorrect reference. If there is no such thing as a "Series 70" Commander or Combat Commander, then there can be no "Pre-Series 70" Commander or Combat Commander either.
Perhaps the "Blue Book" error was generated when Colt put a "70" prefix in the serial numbers of Commanders and Combat Commanders for a while. The serial number prefix is a mere coincidence and has nothing to do with the characteristic that makes a Model O pistol a "Series 70," the collet bushing.
While I am reluctant to disagree with paul45, I think the proper nomenclature for a non-Series 80 4.25-inch Model O pistol is just "Commander" or "Combat Commander," unless one is referring to a Series 80 pistol, in which case, add a reference to "Series 80," such as "Series 80 Combat Commander." Others may disagree on the best way to distinguish between "Non-Series 80" pistols and "Series 80" pistols, but there should be no reference to "Series 70" in relation to any 4.25-inch Model O pistol.
Until relatively recently, the names for the 4.25-inch Model O pistols were either "Commander" or "Combat Commander." The former has an aluminum alloy frame, while the latter has a steel frame.
The collet bushing is what makes a Model O a "Series 70." The Commander and Combat Commander have never had a collet bushing so cannot be "Series 70" pistols. Notice that there is no "Series 70" marking on any Commander or Combat Commander, unlike a Series 70 Government Model or Gold Cup that is marked "Mark IV/ Series '70" on the slide. The always unreliable "Blue Book" makes the improper reference to "Series 70" and "Pre-Series 70" Commanders, which undoubtedly is a factor that has caused some to use this incorrect reference. If there is no such thing as a "Series 70" Commander or Combat Commander, then there can be no "Pre-Series 70" Commander or Combat Commander either.
Perhaps the "Blue Book" error was generated when Colt put a "70" prefix in the serial numbers of Commanders and Combat Commanders for a while. The serial number prefix is a mere coincidence and has nothing to do with the characteristic that makes a Model O pistol a "Series 70," the collet bushing.
While I am reluctant to disagree with paul45, I think the proper nomenclature for a non-Series 80 4.25-inch Model O pistol is just "Commander" or "Combat Commander," unless one is referring to a Series 80 pistol, in which case, add a reference to "Series 80," such as "Series 80 Combat Commander." Others may disagree on the best way to distinguish between "Non-Series 80" pistols and "Series 80" pistols, but there should be no reference to "Series 70" in relation to any 4.25-inch Model O pistol.
We don't deal with "generics" here, and "current usage" is wrong. We deal with Colts. We, of all gun people, should know and use proper nomenclature. If you think it does not make any difference, just try searching for a military Model of 1911 on GunBroker. You will have to wade through hundreds of mislabeled commercial Government Models and the like to find one true military Model of 1911.
You don't order a "cola" at a restaurant. You order a "Coke" or a "Pepsi." Here especially, "order" a "1911" only if you mean a military Model of 1911.
You don't order a "cola" at a restaurant. You order a "Coke" or a "Pepsi." Here especially, "order" a "1911" only if you mean a military Model of 1911.
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That makes better sense.
Exactly. in addition many authors such as Layne Simpson and gunsmiths referred to a general category of semi-autos (M1911/M1911M1/M1911A1/M1991) including the commanders and officer's acps that utilizes "John Browning's basic 1911 design format." However, the "Model of 1911" should be specific to the original.
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