Although it's not an officers match colt the SA used in the Kuhnhaussen manual for getting accurate dimensions for the book is a pre-war post war colt,they are one & the same as far as all the components & dimensions because the manufacture of the parts was done pre-war but assembled post war from warehoused components.Most of the pre-war post war guns were usually presented to celebrities,politicians etc.,some were also sold when an order was placed.This particular colt was owned by a former V.P of colt,he was V.P from 1947 to 1955 [I can't remember his name],after the book was finished Jerry asked me to fix anything that was wrong w/it & do an action job as a favor to him for letting Jerry use it for the book.So I believe the Officer match guns would have been done the same way,just my educated guess.
Pre-war/Post-war vs. "correct" value- a theoretical question.
Let's assume two identical (as far as condition) Officers Match revolvers. One is prewar/postwar as documented by a letter, the other is all "correct" pre-war.
Would the value be equal, or is there a difference? How much relative difference?
Would the value be equal, or is there a difference? How much relative difference?
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First lets clarify the fact that Colt did not build a pre war Officers Model Match revolver as these came out in 1953. Prior to WWII Colt offered the Officers Model Target and this carried on until about 1949. They made some small changes after the war in this model however the value is close to those that were made just prior to the war. Now if you go back to the teens and early twenties then the value of those would be higher then OMT's made after that. As with most collectibles the older they are, the more value they have.Let's assume two identical (as far as condition) Officers Match revolvers. One is prewar/postwar as documented by a letter, the other is all "correct" pre-war.
Would the value be equal, or is there a difference? How much relative difference?
What would be pre-war/post war about a OMT besides the grips? I have a 1946 gun the has plastic Commando style grips that I believe are original to the gun. Especially since it was shipped as 1 of 6 to the Hartford Police Dept. Otherwise mine is all pre-war. I think If a gun did have some features it could help the price a bit. But in the case of plastic grips like mine it probably hurts a bit.
After the war Colt started to put the mat finish on the guns so the cylinder flutes, back strap, front strap, top of the frame around the hammer & bottom of the trigger guard area were done in a mat finish. Also the back strap was changed from checkering to seven straight groves from top to bottom. As mentioned the grips were changed from Walnut to plastic. I assume they did all of these changes to save on production cost. Keep in mind that these changes didn't happen the day the war ended as Colt was using up old inventory after the war as well as looking for ways to cut cost.What would be pre-war/post war about a OMT besides the grips? I have a 1946 gun the has plastic Commando style grips that I believe are original to the gun. Especially since it was shipped as 1 of 6 to the Hartford Police Dept. Otherwise mine is all pre-war. I think If a gun did have some features it could help the price a bit. But in the case of plastic grips like mine it probably hurts a bit.
Sorry, my mistake. So just substitute OMT for OM in my question.First lets clarify the fact that Colt did not build a pre war Officers Model Match revolver as these came out in 1953. Prior to WWII Colt offered the Officers Model Target and this carried on until about 1949. They made some small changes after the war in this model however the value is close to those that were made just prior to the war. Now if you go back to the teens and early twenties then the value of those would be higher then OMT's made after that. As with most collectibles the older they are, the more value they have.
Yes, OMT (Officers Model Target) in place of OMM (Officers Model Match). They were two different series of gun offerings.Sorry, my mistake. So just substitute OMT for OM in my question.
Pre-War can also be decades before the War...and Post-War can mean quite a while after the War...for that matter.
I dont know about all the pre/post war Colts, but up until production was halted in 1942 Colt was still using oven bluing and some of the pre/post WWII shipped pistols were oven blue finished. When Colt resumed new production post WWII, the finish was changed to hot caustic blue. I have no idea if some of the pre/post WWII Colts were unfinished, and subsequently finished in hot salt blue after WWII, but for me the oven blue pistols would bring a premium over a salt blue pistol.
Coltguy, I do realize the postwar changes that Colt made on OMT's and most all other models as well. To me those are simply Post war guns with changes. So I will say what the word pre-war/post-war means to me. To me it means the gun itself, the frame barrel and cylinder are of pre-war manufacture and have oven blue. But, it was not fully assembled or shipped until very late in the war and shortly after the war. So we find guns with the oven blue but with plastic grips, and military parts salted in on those pre-war oven blued frames. If the frame and main parts of the gun were made after the war, and have dip blue, that to me is simply a post war gun.
Pre-War/Post-War is the collector term that is applied only to those Colts finished in the early Post-War period using some combination of Pre-War and Post-War parts and features.
I disagree that the "Dual-Tone" finish was done to save money. It certainly cost MORE to have a different finish on the cylinder flutes and horizontal surfaces than to just polish the entire gun the same way. The "Dual-Tone" finish was dropped in 1954 to SAVE money.
I understood the original question to be whether a true Pre-War/Post-War Colt is worth more, less or the same as a Pre-War version of the same model, all other things being equal. I can answer that question absolutely.
It depends. The Pre-War/Post-War specimens are certainly less common, which increases their value to a degree. However, an earlier Pre-War specimen will have the better gas blue and higher quality of Colts from the "Golden Age," which increases their value to a degree.
The term, "All other things being equal," rarely applies, because things rarely ARE equal. An "advanced" collector will want one (at least) of each, while the casual collector will take what appears when it appears at the price at which it appears. You pays your money and you takes your choice.
I disagree that the "Dual-Tone" finish was done to save money. It certainly cost MORE to have a different finish on the cylinder flutes and horizontal surfaces than to just polish the entire gun the same way. The "Dual-Tone" finish was dropped in 1954 to SAVE money.
I understood the original question to be whether a true Pre-War/Post-War Colt is worth more, less or the same as a Pre-War version of the same model, all other things being equal. I can answer that question absolutely.
It depends. The Pre-War/Post-War specimens are certainly less common, which increases their value to a degree. However, an earlier Pre-War specimen will have the better gas blue and higher quality of Colts from the "Golden Age," which increases their value to a degree.
The term, "All other things being equal," rarely applies, because things rarely ARE equal. An "advanced" collector will want one (at least) of each, while the casual collector will take what appears when it appears at the price at which it appears. You pays your money and you takes your choice.
Even after the military bought 400 Super .38 pistols in 1945, some of the prewar pistols were still for sale following WWII. These pistols were in the 37,000 serial number range and were assembled using military small parts, but the slides and receivers were finished in the prewar oven blue.
I found one at a small show years ago, and the thing that caught my eye was the almost iridescent color of the oven blue. It had Coltwood grips and a military hammer, trigger and MSH and was in 99% plus condition. At the time I had no interest in the civilian Colts and foolishly sold it.
I found one at a small show years ago, and the thing that caught my eye was the almost iridescent color of the oven blue. It had Coltwood grips and a military hammer, trigger and MSH and was in 99% plus condition. At the time I had no interest in the civilian Colts and foolishly sold it.
In your previous post you asked what was the difference in the OMT from pre war to post war and I answered those questions. It is more then the grips and bluing as I mentioned in my previous post. We are trying to explain the difference between a pre war OMT and a post war OMT. The original question that was asked had to do with value and the Judge did a good job of answering this. For example I paid more for a post war OMT because I needed one to fill my collection and they are not as prevalent an the pre war.Coltguy, I do realize the postwar changes that Colt made on OMT's and most all other models as well. To me those are simply Post war guns with changes. So I will say what the word pre-war/post-war means to me. To me it means the gun itself, the frame barrel and cylinder are of pre-war manufacture and have oven blue. But, it was not fully assembled or shipped until very late in the war and shortly after the war. So we find guns with the oven blue but with plastic grips, and military parts salted in on those pre-war oven blued frames. If the frame and main parts of the gun were made after the war, and have dip blue, that to me is simply a post war gun.
Not trying to hijack thread, but I believe this is related.... This is a question for Judge and others. What would you consider to be the golden Age for Colt, if such a thing could be quantified? What years was quality at its absolute peak? I can start a different thread if need be.higher quality of Colts from the "Golden Age,
Please start a new thread as they don't want us to wander off the original subject. Thanks.Not trying to hijack thread, but I believe this is related.... This is a question for Judge and others. What would you consider to be the golden Age for Colt, if such a thing could be quantified? What years was quality at its absolute peak? I can start a different thread if need be.
Quote: "In your previous post you asked what was the difference in the OMT from pre war to post war".
That was Not my question. My question was what could be some of changes or parts we could see on a Pre-War Oven blue gun that was assembled right after the war. I started the conversation with grips, plastic grips are one change on such a gun. Full post war guns (which you nicely outlined) are a whole different subject.
That was Not my question. My question was what could be some of changes or parts we could see on a Pre-War Oven blue gun that was assembled right after the war. I started the conversation with grips, plastic grips are one change on such a gun. Full post war guns (which you nicely outlined) are a whole different subject.
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