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Python Refinishing

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16K views 83 replies 28 participants last post by  Olle  
#1 ·
Who's highly recommended to re-nickel and "restore" an old rusted & pitted Python? Going to need a significant amount of pitting removed along the barrel. There is really no collector value left. Thanks!!
 
#2 ·
Be careful who you trust, many refinishers are really gun butchers.
More then 95% of a good refinish is in the hand polishing done before any finishing.
This becomes more critical when a pitted gun is re-plated because contrary to popular thought, polishing of a bright nickel gun is even more critical then a blued gun.

Here's some recommended sources that are top refinishers who offer bright nickel plating......

Cogan is "arguably" the best all around finisher in America. I'm not sure if they offer bright nickel.
http://www.apwcogan.com/

Ford's has had a top reputation except for some problems a couple of years ago. Several members sent in Pythons for bluing and one for re-working of the stamps.
They got back ruined Pythons.
Apparently they'd hired a new worker and he was a butcher.
I have no idea at this time as to whether this has been corrected, but I did read one person who said he's had a pistol re-plated with bright nickel and it was good.
Use Ford's with caution. If they've corrected their problem you'll get a top job.
http://www.fordsguns.com/

The Custom Shop is NOT affiliated with the Colt Custom Shop or with Colt Firearms. Colt simply once listed them as a possible source of repairs and refinishing.
Pictures on the site and a few customer reviews seem to indicate they're good.
https://www.customshopinc.com/

Ron's is a well known firearms restoration service. Like Doug Turnbull his specialty is returning valuable guns back into new condition.
Turnbull apparently no longer does Pythons.
https://www.ronsgunshop.com/

I'd recommend calling some of the above and discuss how bad the pitting is and what they think they can do. A world class polisher can often work wonders. You might also offer to send some good digital photos, but in all cases they'll have to actually see the gun.
 
#25 ·
Cogan is "arguably" the best all around finisher in America. I'm not sure if they offer bright nickel.
Professional Gunsmith - Accurate Plating & Weaponry | Cogan Custom

...

The Custom Shop is NOT affiliated with the Colt Custom Shop or with Colt Firearms. Colt simply once listed them as a possible source of repairs and refinishing.
Pictures on the site and a few customer reviews seem to indicate they're good.
https://www.customshopinc.com/
i'm really surprised by this. when i called Colt to see if they could refinished a potential gun off gunbroker for me, the pointed me directly to the custom shop, inc. if accurate metal plating is the better company, i'd prefer go there. they're HALF THE PRICE of the custom shop. and it's basically within walking distance for me.
 
#3 ·
How bad is the pitting on the barrel? It will take a lot of time to polish out severe pitting and there probably won't be much left of the roll marks, so you might be better off changing the barrel. It might cost you a few dollars more (depending on how many hours of polishing it will take to fix the old one), but the end result will more than likely be much better.
 
#6 ·
Hope this question doesn't hi-jack the OP, but it is about refinishing possibilities. My son just bought a Python that needs cosmetic help. Seller showed him an estimate from a refinisher for $2,200, and decided to sell the gun cheap. Here are some questions:
1. A barrel that has been polished enough to remove pitting...is that where "butchering" comes in? Does polishing reduce the barrel's girth enough to be noticed? If so, a new barrel is best, right?
2. Same with a cylinder. Will a replacement cylinder fit our Pythons?
3. Choice. The gun is OEM blued. Is is possible or worthwhile to have the gun nickle-plated instead of re-blued?
 
#35 ·
An appraiser of guns told me, when I asked him about re-bluing. Do not re-blue or refinish a collectable gun because it will only de-value the gun even with the flaws or wear. Collectors buy guns, even with wear, because they are "original". If you re-finish the gun, it is no longer "original" so the collector value is gone. Now, knowing that, if you just want to have a prettier gun for your own enjoyment then of course go for it, but as long as it shoots fine then just take care of it and try to stop any further damage and it would probably be worth more money further down the line than if you refinish it.
 
#7 ·
It all depends on what is cheap. Barrels can be found but are not cheap.....think in the 250 -400 range depending on length, condition and whether it has sights included, when they come up. Same with cylinder. And yes a blue gun can be nickeled. Save his money and just keep it as a shooter because no matter what he puts into it, it will never be anything but a frankengun......
 
#9 ·
The gun will shoot the same whether refinished or not. It seems silly to me to spend big money to create a gun that is no longer original. In all but the most extreme cases, I prefer the looks of an original with all its scars from its years of service over a refinished example that often looks like a rounded-off bar of soap with not a sharp edge anywhere to be found. Your gun, your money, your choice.

Another thought. If you bought it "dumb-cheap," sell it on GunBroker, where some optimist will think it can be "restored" and will pay more than it is worth, and presumably much more than you paid so as to return you a large profit. Then save up a few more bucks and buy one that suits you.
 
#10 ·
Parts replacement is the last option.
Python parts are very expensive, then they need a real Master pistolsmith like Frank Glenn do the replacement and fitting.
Barrels and especially cylinders are very definitely NOT drop in parts, and it's usually a major mistake to trust a local general gunsmith to do this level of work.

The refinishing question comes down to how bad the pitting really is. A real Master polisher can often do amazing work.
If the pitting is bad enough there may still be some left even after a master level polish job.
In any case you have to be very careful who you have do the work, and they'll have to actually have the gun to examine before being able to say what they can do with it.
Whether the barrel or cylinder might have apparent metal removed is related to how deep the pits are and how well the polisher can blend the removal in with the rest of the part.

If significant metal has to be polished off the stamps might need to be re-worked. This is usually done by hand engraving to restore letters and other stamps.

A blued gun can be bright nickel plated, but since bright nickel plating will make any defect look more apparent, you might be better off to stay with bright blue.

If you want a refinish in my other post above I listed some real experts who do nickel.
Here's some experts on bright polish bluing you might contact......

The same cautions about Ford's as above hold. Ford's used to be famous for being able to do a top quality Royal Blue with the 50's Colt wet look. If they've corrected their problems they should be great, but until I hear more current feed back it's buyer beware.
https://www.fordsguns.com/

Glenrock is famous in the trade for quality bluing and they offer a high mirror polish. They're used by many custom gunsmiths who need top of the line work for high end custom guns.
http://www.gunbluing.com/

Also as above, the Custom Shop is NOT connected in any way with the Colt Custom Shop and Colt only listed them as a possible source for Colt gunsmithing and refinishing.
Some reviews and the pictures on their web site look good.
https://www.customshopinc.com/

Ron's is a higher end firearms restoration service. Since the best, Doug Turnbull apparently no longer do Pythons this might be a good choice.
http://www.ronsgunshop.com/

Homestead recently got a recommendation on the forum. I know nothing about them.
Firearm Refinish and Restoration

Smith Gun has a good reputation.
Smith Gun ? Professional Gunsmithing

Last, for a shooter you might consider having your Python hard chrome plated. This is still the best all around gun finish and is one of the very few that's a true lifetime finish.
Probably the best at hard chrome work is APW-Cogan, but I'm not sure about pit removal.
One advantage of matte hard chrome is that it makes pits less apparent.
 
#13 · (Edited)
I only got as far as reading the coogan price list. I was born a 100 years too late. Those prices would make me back against the wall. There is no way a person can justify those prices unless you have so much money it isn't a factor. There is no way you could get your money out of a gun refinishing it.
About 1971 I gave my best friend a nice 1917 Smith & Wesson. I had got busted up bad in a accident and they took me in while I recuperated.
Later he and I was on a deer hunting trip and I met another acquaintance and we all camped in the same campground. The other guy had a FFL. My friend got his 1917 out of the truck, it was in a old leather case to show around the campfire. It was 100% covered with very light rust! My buddy many years prior had sold Amway products and he had stored the gun in a old sample case. God knows what type chemicals had been in that case. He hung his head in shame and was fighting tears! The other guy looked it over and said let me send this to the s&w company and see what they can do. The rust is very light and it's just starting. That gun came back with the prettiest bright high polish commercial reblue I ever seen. I kind of think maybe some old factory master foreman was teaching new guys how to polish or whatever and took extra pains! I believe the cost was sixteen dollars back then!!!!!!!!
 
#14 ·
I have bought 2 beater pythons with the idea in the past with intention of fixing up. The 1st I did refinish, but it wasn't right after that. The refinish was a decent job...just not quite there. I ended up selling it. The 2nd was a pasture/truck gun belonging to my grandfather. I had thought to restore it after I got it, but combination of my grandfather's history with it and the expense involved....I just decided to buy a nice one.
 
#15 ·
Years ago when I was single and had a good job I had some custom work done on a handful of guns. At the time I had a few "in`s" with a couple of good gunsmiths and others in the industry. Things were far cheaper I believe even figuring the inflation factor. Now it seems that some gunsmiths have been given "Guru" status. In today's world unless money is not a factor, I wouldn't do "custom" guns again. From the cost standpoint, there is no way refinishing or customizing guns is a good idea if you think your going to get your money back. Now if you go into it because you want to see your idea`s come to be, or personalise a gun that's fine but don't delude yourself thinking that your going to make money on the deal, you will lose.
I bought a brand new 5" blue s&w model 27-2 about 1972. Right away I sent it back to the factory and got all the extras done. Wide target hammer, trigger, red ramp, wo rear sight and smooth presentation grips and the wood presentation box. That all was fine and relatively cheap compared to now and would have been a good idea. BUT I also had smith engrave my name in a oval on the side plate in gold. Were I to try and sell the gun now that engraving probably knocked $700 off the gun besides in today's money that $66 worth of engraving in 1971 would be like spending $416 today. I hope my one year old great grandson likes it 18 years from now. Or else I better get famous real soon.
 
#16 ·
This is a custom built 270 with a mauser commercial supreme action. Has a K-10 scope. It was made by a old time custom maker many years ago who had a top reputation building bench rest and varmint rifles. I lucked into it almost 50 years ago and suspect it was put together maybe 20 years before that. Today it would cost big time to have one with this quality put together. I have been playing with the idea of possibly selling it and a few more in my waning years. I have been trying to get a idea of pricing it on another site. I was disappointed in the answers. The answers ran about a quarter or third of what I would have guessed of what this would cost today to have done!
 
#19 · (Edited)
OK, as would I. Here is what it was bought at; the damage from water of some sort...

From what I've read, many restoration people won't mess with Pythons that have had water damage, so we'll learn from this venture. The secret seems to be with the amount of pitting and how much surface needs to be removed......so we'll see.

What made me strike a deal with this gun was that nothing about the lettering was damaged, so the end result should look very close to the original.
 

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#28 ·
Thanks for posting the before pictures. I'm almost always in the "never refinish" camp but I agree this one looks awful. I'd have to decide if the huge gouges to white metal look more awful than a reblue job. Probably the reblue will look slightly better. Keep a picture of the "before" in your wallet though, to show people that will sadly shake their heads, saying 'too bad it was reblued...'

Image
 
#31 ·
Well, when you take in a stray, you feed and water them, and try to normalize them. This stray has no history other than I know it was in water (grips had that black staining on half of them). How the bluing got done that way is a question that's out of my wheelhouse; I can't imagine fresh or salt water being so spotty. Any ideas?
 
#33 ·
Yes.
People almost always recommend not having a gun, especially a Python refinished.
However at some indeterminate point you actually gain by having a refinish done, as long as it's a quality job.

This Python is WAY past the point of gaining by a good top quality refinish.

Your options are to have it reblued with a Royal Blue or possibly hard chromed. At this point a change in finish is not an issue so go with whatever you'd like.
 
#34 ·
These responses heighten my interest in what the refinisher is capable of doing, because he's been up-beat about the condition and the expectations. 25 years as a smith and a decent website suggest that he knows what he's doing...and we'll see soon enough.

There was absolutely NO plan to keep the gun as-is; not even a whim of a thought. While a refinish might not and will not produce a new-looking gun, it will be all the same finish, no rust, and the water-stained grips have been restored to very good condition, IMO. The black water stains are virtually gone; you can see them, but they now look like shadows in the grain, and ebony stain didn't turn the grips black. Perfect? no A lot better than they were? yep
 

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#39 ·
Both of you might have a point, but the guy finishing my Python definitely charges more for a Colt blue finish, because he has to spend more time polishing.

On a side note, as a non-collector I compared the finish of the Python (before sending it for re-finish) to that of a S&W Model 25 and couldn't really see a color difference. The (much newer) 25 was shinier, but the color depth seemed awfully close...so I learned something. If my Python comes back looking like the 25, I'll be satisfied.