I like a gun that shoots. Seldom will you see me write a comment about a SAA style gun that isn't a shooter.
John Wayne spent much of his later career wearing this gun or one very much like it. 4 3/4", .45 Collt/Colt and the yellow Calalin grips on a well worn gun with little finish.
The JW Colt pictured above is in the National Cowboy Museum. No question JW used other guns. A 5.5", 38-40 is a stand out with a Bisley sized trigger guard for one. But the 4 3/4" guns with those yellow grips was his signature gun for many a hit movie for John Wayne.
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Most of us growing up in the time frame of John Wayne as a leading man knew and could appreciate his choice in a hand gun.
42 years after John Wayne's last movie many of us can still appreciate a "John Wayne" gun.
If Colt was selling them for $900 I have no doubt we'd all be buying them. Sadly Colt isn't selling much in the way of SAAs.
Enter Cimarron who has been selling a close copy of JW's gun that is actually made by Uberti.
Mine showed up one day NIB at a price I couldn't refuse. I had refused prior for a gun that retails for a msrp of $908.70! Frankly in my feeble mind that is a heady price for a Uberti clone when the plain jane Uberti in many forms (with a blue and cased finish mind you) can be had almost anywhere for $500 out the door.
When you hit that price range ($1000+/-) a 2nd hand USFA Rodeo (which is actually built on Uberti specs) is well within reach. That is a gun comparison worth considering here.
The Cimarron "Rooster Shooter" comes with a Cimarron "original finish". Which is in effect "no finish". Mine came a little, let's say, "over buffed" to be kind.
I didn't take photos prior to my gun's make over but these photos are a spitting image of my gun prior and just a few serial numbers away. Obvious to me it is the same process and very, very likely same gunsmith doing the work on both guns. My gun is #0852 . The gun in the photos is #0863
# 863
some serious buffing there
#871 is a little better with "some" finish still intact. Still way over done as an "antique finish" IMO.
The lack of any finish was a turn off for me. But the price was right. More on that in a minute. My impression on first picking up the gun?
It is a typical Uberti 4 3/4" .45. Nice guns. Not a Colt. But many/most times I have found the older/no extra safety Ubertis to have a better trigger and more importantly better timing out of the box than a Colt 3rd Gen and many 2nds. This gun with factory springs was over sprung. Not Colt weight over sprung but still a little over sprung but surprisingly a very clean and crisp trigger coming in at around 4#. Timing was spot on dropping the bolt right on the edge of the bolt stop notch and no over travel as the trigger snapped into the full cock notch on the hammer.
Safety? On this one the safety is between your ears. My most recent Uberti, serial # ranges P515XX, came (last month) with a lack of the normal 4 clicks on the hammer, a trigger sitting way too far forward in the trigger guard and an unreliable, newly designed safety. I changed those guns out to an original Colt style hammer and trigger with easily found Uberti parts. The "Rooster Shooter" I have came with those same, older style Colt, Uberti made parts already installed. Which could have been a deal breaker for me without them. Serial number on this gun is P408XX ( at least a year old gun). The only safety on this gun, is the overly long cylinder rod. Easy to cut that down or buy a proper one.
Those attributes or lack of are always my first inspections. As I cocked thee hammer I noticed right off the hammer checkering was deep and sharp. I had to look. Was it hand cut? It wasn't. EDM cut I suppose but deep and sharp and not unattractive with a 1st Gen Colt style border pattern. Huge plus for me there even EDM cut. I have to put my readers on to tell how it was done. But my thumb said, "sharp, positive checkering". With in reason I don't really care how it got done. This was well within reason and frankly one of the little things that first made me take notice and then endeared me to this gun.
Grips? An acquired taste for color. They do feel good. The fit left some room for improvement. Mostly the locating pin was over size and needed to be cut down. And the screw anchors were never glued in properly. PIA to do right after falling out after being contoured to the grips during fitting. Some serious lack of detail work and attention there! You'd be in the $400 msrp category on that kind of stuff. Put me off on the grips and some on the gun itself because of it. But I do like the Calalin grips, the shape, the small finger grooves (which surprised me), the over all feel of the material and even the color. I don't have any grips like the color. And I have a few pairs of beautiful. old, aged ivory grips. The color on the Catalin is nothing like anything I own. Perfect color to stand out in photos and the movies I'd suspect.
Down side? The bottom of the grip is cut square ust like JW's originals. Shooting over a bag with big hand they bite ya. It was getting really painful by the end of the session yesterday.
The last two checks on a gun I might purchase are may be the most important for me. Deal breakers. #1 Is the front sight vertical? #2 What is the cylinder gap?
Front sight although obviously overly tall was perfectly vertical. The cylinder gap was so small I could hardly see through it. The trained human eye can easily detect .001". I knew this one to be exceptional. I later measured it at the tight side of .0025". Which is tight by anyone's standard.
Gun in hand, I left the store.
Back home I picked up 500 mixed rounds of 45 Colt and 45 Cowboy Special ammo. My standard 45 ammo loads and 3 types of factory loads, lead and jacketed and coated. Bullet weights from 255s down to 16grs in the CS loads. Bullet diameters from .451 to .454". I added a couple of Swiss files to my range bag and off to the indoor range I went looking for some serious "group shooting".
Almost 500 rounds later I had shot all the ammo into groups of varying sizes, of 6 rounds each, at know distances from 7 yards to 25 yards. I had the gun so hot twice I had to let it cool to reload. The vertical front sight did indeed keep the windage right on for this gun. I also took the time to cut the front sight down to POA/POI specifically for my 230gr lead .45 Colt hand loads.
The 230s are dead on the top of the front sight at 25 yards with the 255s printing just above that. At 15 yards my little 165g .454 CS loads shot a couple of inches low but all into the same hole. Easily minute of SASS ammo there. The 255s might be equally as accurate at 25 yards but those 165s are sure a lot easier to shoot well. And I suspect from that short test this gun might like .454" size bullets better than the .5452s. I have yet to measure the throats to actually know that though. Just my guess at the moment.
I have not recut the barrel throat. I have not done a trigger/action job or changed the springs out on this gun. Not doing all that is unusual for me. "Out of the box" is not a gun I typically shoot, let alone like.
The more I shot this gun, the better the gun performed and the better I shot. Practice and trigger control was a big part of that. But seldom are two guns the same. All of them take me some to get use to them. And the fact I needed to shoot some full house .45 Colt loads again. As much as I have a newly acquired taste for light recoiling guns the 165gr loads proved that yet again. My right hand is still a little tight from well over 300 " heavy" loads (230s and 255s that typically chrono from a 4 3/4" @ around 900 and 950fps ) out of this gun yesterday.
Target at the left was my best 25 yard, 12 rounds of 255s with Unique. My best effort out of many groups. Hold was 6:00 just below edge of the red.. Target on the right was the first 15 yard target of 12 rounds using a .454" 165gr bullets and Cowboy Special brass and holding high at 12:00 just above the edge of the red. I stopped shooting that ammo knowing I wasn't gonna get a lot better than that yesterday.
After yesterday's effort I decided the "Rooster Shooter" would need s make over if I was going to keep shooting it.
before
after...with more yet to do.
And JW's movie gun..
Back to here:
" When you hit that price range ($1000+/-) a 2nd hand USFA Rodeo (which is actually built on Uberti specs) is well within reach. That is a gun comparison worth considering here."
I really like the high quality of the later USFA guns. Mostly I just like how they are timed and that they shoot exceptional . I have been shooting a dozen new production Uberti guns. This Rooster being the oldest, from what I think was 2017 or late 2016. The current Ubertis are all bumping on USFA quality for a a usable firearm (if not value/quality). If you want to shoot the gun hard to not recommend a current Uberti...and they are easily available. I'm not trying to sell anything here or blow smoke up your skirt just sharing what I have found with thousands of rounds down range in 5 different calibers of the current Uberti P that several importers sell. At $500 street prices on the basic model they are easy guns to like, even with no finish
Another effort with a Rooster as the base...I like it.
John Wayne spent much of his later career wearing this gun or one very much like it. 4 3/4", .45 Collt/Colt and the yellow Calalin grips on a well worn gun with little finish.
The JW Colt pictured above is in the National Cowboy Museum. No question JW used other guns. A 5.5", 38-40 is a stand out with a Bisley sized trigger guard for one. But the 4 3/4" guns with those yellow grips was his signature gun for many a hit movie for John Wayne.
Most of us growing up in the time frame of John Wayne as a leading man knew and could appreciate his choice in a hand gun.
42 years after John Wayne's last movie many of us can still appreciate a "John Wayne" gun.
If Colt was selling them for $900 I have no doubt we'd all be buying them. Sadly Colt isn't selling much in the way of SAAs.
Enter Cimarron who has been selling a close copy of JW's gun that is actually made by Uberti.
Mine showed up one day NIB at a price I couldn't refuse. I had refused prior for a gun that retails for a msrp of $908.70! Frankly in my feeble mind that is a heady price for a Uberti clone when the plain jane Uberti in many forms (with a blue and cased finish mind you) can be had almost anywhere for $500 out the door.
When you hit that price range ($1000+/-) a 2nd hand USFA Rodeo (which is actually built on Uberti specs) is well within reach. That is a gun comparison worth considering here.
The Cimarron "Rooster Shooter" comes with a Cimarron "original finish". Which is in effect "no finish". Mine came a little, let's say, "over buffed" to be kind.
I didn't take photos prior to my gun's make over but these photos are a spitting image of my gun prior and just a few serial numbers away. Obvious to me it is the same process and very, very likely same gunsmith doing the work on both guns. My gun is #0852 . The gun in the photos is #0863
# 863
some serious buffing there
#871 is a little better with "some" finish still intact. Still way over done as an "antique finish" IMO.
The lack of any finish was a turn off for me. But the price was right. More on that in a minute. My impression on first picking up the gun?
It is a typical Uberti 4 3/4" .45. Nice guns. Not a Colt. But many/most times I have found the older/no extra safety Ubertis to have a better trigger and more importantly better timing out of the box than a Colt 3rd Gen and many 2nds. This gun with factory springs was over sprung. Not Colt weight over sprung but still a little over sprung but surprisingly a very clean and crisp trigger coming in at around 4#. Timing was spot on dropping the bolt right on the edge of the bolt stop notch and no over travel as the trigger snapped into the full cock notch on the hammer.
Safety? On this one the safety is between your ears. My most recent Uberti, serial # ranges P515XX, came (last month) with a lack of the normal 4 clicks on the hammer, a trigger sitting way too far forward in the trigger guard and an unreliable, newly designed safety. I changed those guns out to an original Colt style hammer and trigger with easily found Uberti parts. The "Rooster Shooter" I have came with those same, older style Colt, Uberti made parts already installed. Which could have been a deal breaker for me without them. Serial number on this gun is P408XX ( at least a year old gun). The only safety on this gun, is the overly long cylinder rod. Easy to cut that down or buy a proper one.
Those attributes or lack of are always my first inspections. As I cocked thee hammer I noticed right off the hammer checkering was deep and sharp. I had to look. Was it hand cut? It wasn't. EDM cut I suppose but deep and sharp and not unattractive with a 1st Gen Colt style border pattern. Huge plus for me there even EDM cut. I have to put my readers on to tell how it was done. But my thumb said, "sharp, positive checkering". With in reason I don't really care how it got done. This was well within reason and frankly one of the little things that first made me take notice and then endeared me to this gun.
Grips? An acquired taste for color. They do feel good. The fit left some room for improvement. Mostly the locating pin was over size and needed to be cut down. And the screw anchors were never glued in properly. PIA to do right after falling out after being contoured to the grips during fitting. Some serious lack of detail work and attention there! You'd be in the $400 msrp category on that kind of stuff. Put me off on the grips and some on the gun itself because of it. But I do like the Calalin grips, the shape, the small finger grooves (which surprised me), the over all feel of the material and even the color. I don't have any grips like the color. And I have a few pairs of beautiful. old, aged ivory grips. The color on the Catalin is nothing like anything I own. Perfect color to stand out in photos and the movies I'd suspect.
Down side? The bottom of the grip is cut square ust like JW's originals. Shooting over a bag with big hand they bite ya. It was getting really painful by the end of the session yesterday.
The last two checks on a gun I might purchase are may be the most important for me. Deal breakers. #1 Is the front sight vertical? #2 What is the cylinder gap?
Front sight although obviously overly tall was perfectly vertical. The cylinder gap was so small I could hardly see through it. The trained human eye can easily detect .001". I knew this one to be exceptional. I later measured it at the tight side of .0025". Which is tight by anyone's standard.
Gun in hand, I left the store.
Back home I picked up 500 mixed rounds of 45 Colt and 45 Cowboy Special ammo. My standard 45 ammo loads and 3 types of factory loads, lead and jacketed and coated. Bullet weights from 255s down to 16grs in the CS loads. Bullet diameters from .451 to .454". I added a couple of Swiss files to my range bag and off to the indoor range I went looking for some serious "group shooting".
Almost 500 rounds later I had shot all the ammo into groups of varying sizes, of 6 rounds each, at know distances from 7 yards to 25 yards. I had the gun so hot twice I had to let it cool to reload. The vertical front sight did indeed keep the windage right on for this gun. I also took the time to cut the front sight down to POA/POI specifically for my 230gr lead .45 Colt hand loads.
The 230s are dead on the top of the front sight at 25 yards with the 255s printing just above that. At 15 yards my little 165g .454 CS loads shot a couple of inches low but all into the same hole. Easily minute of SASS ammo there. The 255s might be equally as accurate at 25 yards but those 165s are sure a lot easier to shoot well. And I suspect from that short test this gun might like .454" size bullets better than the .5452s. I have yet to measure the throats to actually know that though. Just my guess at the moment.
I have not recut the barrel throat. I have not done a trigger/action job or changed the springs out on this gun. Not doing all that is unusual for me. "Out of the box" is not a gun I typically shoot, let alone like.
The more I shot this gun, the better the gun performed and the better I shot. Practice and trigger control was a big part of that. But seldom are two guns the same. All of them take me some to get use to them. And the fact I needed to shoot some full house .45 Colt loads again. As much as I have a newly acquired taste for light recoiling guns the 165gr loads proved that yet again. My right hand is still a little tight from well over 300 " heavy" loads (230s and 255s that typically chrono from a 4 3/4" @ around 900 and 950fps ) out of this gun yesterday.
Target at the left was my best 25 yard, 12 rounds of 255s with Unique. My best effort out of many groups. Hold was 6:00 just below edge of the red.. Target on the right was the first 15 yard target of 12 rounds using a .454" 165gr bullets and Cowboy Special brass and holding high at 12:00 just above the edge of the red. I stopped shooting that ammo knowing I wasn't gonna get a lot better than that yesterday.
After yesterday's effort I decided the "Rooster Shooter" would need s make over if I was going to keep shooting it.
before
after...with more yet to do.
And JW's movie gun..
Back to here:
" When you hit that price range ($1000+/-) a 2nd hand USFA Rodeo (which is actually built on Uberti specs) is well within reach. That is a gun comparison worth considering here."
I really like the high quality of the later USFA guns. Mostly I just like how they are timed and that they shoot exceptional . I have been shooting a dozen new production Uberti guns. This Rooster being the oldest, from what I think was 2017 or late 2016. The current Ubertis are all bumping on USFA quality for a a usable firearm (if not value/quality). If you want to shoot the gun hard to not recommend a current Uberti...and they are easily available. I'm not trying to sell anything here or blow smoke up your skirt just sharing what I have found with thousands of rounds down range in 5 different calibers of the current Uberti P that several importers sell. At $500 street prices on the basic model they are easy guns to like, even with no finish
Another effort with a Rooster as the base...I like it.
