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Discussion Starter #1
I am not a FFL. I purchased and took delivery on a Colt Marshal (signed papers) and the gun did not meet my 3 day inspection. The seller will take the gun back with a full refund but he's worried about the "legal" way to transpire this transaction. The seller lives in California. Does it need to ship FFL to FFL? I ship to his FFL. Personal to personal transaction? Thanks for the advise.
 

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That is a tough question Addicted. You probably need to check out the Cal DOJ website or better still, give them a call. I will be the 1st to tell you I am no expert in California gun laws, but I do know they are very restrictive, and their laws may complicate/hinder your ability to return the gun.

California is one of several states that is on the leading edge of eliminating 2nd Amendment private gun ownership. In their attempt to ban guns they have passed some of the strictest legislation on the books. This includes the so called "Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale." Meaning if the handgun is not on the approved list it CANNOT be imported to California from outside the state. If it is not on the list, once it leaves the state it can not return (by re-importing).

Their exact words are: " Effective January 1, 2001, no handgun may be manufactured within California, imported into California for sale, lent, given, kept for sale, or offered/exposed for sale unless that handgun model has passed firing, safety, and drop tests and is certified for sale in California by the Department of Justice."

So in one sense you are trying to import the gun into California. Since it is not on their "Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale" importing the gun would be illegal. However if the gun is on the C&R list, then it will make it easier to return.

You asked does it need to ship FFL to FFL. I believe it must be received in California by an FFL. But I also believe federal law allows an individual to ship directly to an FFL holder once he has received a copy of the receiving FFL license, signed in ink. But you certainly CANNOT ship a handgun directly to an individual in California, unless the individual has a C&R license and the handgun being shipped is on the C&R list.

Did the seller ship the gun directly to your FFL? If the seller had his FFL ship the gun to your FFL, then best thing to do is have him speak with his FFL that shipped the gun, for advice on the return. If he shipped it directly to your FFL (without using an FFL on his side) he may have troubles finding a California FFL to handle the return. This is because the California FFL will identify that the gun is not on the approved list and will want nothing to do with importing a non approved gun into the state. Because of the complicated and restrictive gun laws in California, it is no surprise the seller is " worried about the "legal" way to transpire this transaction."

If the gun is on the C&R list then returning it should be much easier. It can be sent to California to either a C&R holder or an FFL willing to accept the firearm. I strongly suggest either you or the seller contact the Cal DOJ and seek advice in this matter. Simply put, California does not want that gun back in their state. They want all guns out of their state!

You may want to ask this question on the S&W forum as they have a lot of guys from California that are familiar with the laws and restrictions of handgun transfers. I wish you good luck on the return.
 

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Since this is a sale that did not go thru then the ownership of the revolver never changed hands and still belong to the seller. Your FFL dealer that took possession should be able to ship it back directly to the owner.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I signed FFL papers. Doesn't that place ownership in my hands? It seems that FFL papers will be needed to send it back to his FFL dealer from my FFL dealer.

Your statement is interesting. Others chime in please.
 

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OK Addicted, your 3 day inspection period for this gun has come and gone. It looks like you are not going to get many other opinions on this matter.

For those of us interested in your dilemma, please provide a status update on what you have found out and what course of action you are taking.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I'm either confused or my transaction process is incorrect. This is how it works with my FFL doing my receiving transfer.

The gun is delivered to my FFL. She's about 30 miles away but because she's out of the city limits there is no 5 day wait. I sign the FFL papers and back home I go with my gun. The gun did not meet my 3 day inspection and the seller agreed to take it back. Like myself, he also is not a dealer. Now he has FFL papers coming back to my dealer. The gun and papers will be shipped to his dealer.

You speak as if I have 3 days 'before' signing papers. How is a dealer going to have a gun leave her possession without my taking ownership of it?

I look forward to your reply.
 

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Addicted, I think you read far too much into my words. I spoke nothing of having 3 days 'before' signing papers. I mentioned your 3 day inspection period has come and gone simply meaning you should have made a decision and taken action by the end of the 3 days.

The customary 3 days inspection period often begins when the dealer receives the gun. If it takes the buyer 4 days to get to the dealers, to many sellers, the inspection period has expired.

A buyer can reject the gun even before taking possession and signing papers. One examines the gun at the receiving dealers and realize it does not meet their expectations and rejects the sale. Often times the rejected gun never leaves the possession of the receiving dealer. If the seller is notified within 3 days, it is customary for him to accept return.

Apparently I was the one confused as I overlooked you actually took possession of the gun. What was wrong with the gun that took you 3 days to notice? Did you not notice offending characteristics while in possession of the receiving dealer? Wouldn't it have been easier to just reject the gun after 1st seeing it?

If the Marshal was dated to 1954 or 1955 then it would be a C&R and eligible to be imported into California. If it is later (1956) I still say the gun can not be legally imported to California, as it is not on the approved list. There are only 11 Colt handguns certified for sale in California and the Marshal is not one of them. http://justice.hdcdojnet.state.ca.us/safeguns/safeguns_new.taf

Thanks for the update.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
[ QUOTE ]
Apparently I was the one confused as I overlooked you actually took possession of the gun. What was wrong with the gun that took you 3 days to notice? Did you not notice offending characteristics while in possession of the receiving dealer? Wouldn't it have been easier to just reject the gun after 1st seeing it?

[/ QUOTE ]

My dealer never shows me the gun until I've signed the papers. That's going to change on my next transaction. As usual, the gun is rejected due to re-finish. On re-finished gun sellers do a great job by missleading the buyer with poor quality pictures as well as missleading verbal and written communication. I can spot a re-finished gun in seconds once it's in my hands so my mode of dealer transactions are going to change. I guess I'm still in the mode of taking possession and asking another persons opinion of re-finish. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
 

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[ QUOTE ]
My dealer never shows me the gun until I've signed the papers.

[/ QUOTE ]
There is your problem and I'm glad you have now reconized it. The 3 day inspections are done at the receiving FFL. You have 3 days to contact the seller beginning when the firearm arrives at your FFL. That's how the seller can request no shooting or no turning of screws. If something is found that doesn't meet your approval then you don't fill out the paperwork and thus don't take possession.
I missed the part about you taking possession in the original post and that's why I said you could ship it back to the seller. Filling out the papers and taking possession makes it a whole new can of worms. I too would like to know how this works out for you.
 

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How did this turn out? I would think that taking possession of it and leaving the dealer would prohibit the return of the gun to California, since it was "transferred" and would now be a re-importation of a "non-safe" handgun. (Did you know, though, that cops can buy all the "unsafe" handguns they want?)
 

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Hi Majic,
Kalifornia already thought of that... even if you pawn a gun you have to complete paperwork reregistering it to yourself. If you do not qualify, the dealer is reqired to turn the gun over to the local police...FYI Bob Best
 

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Discussion Starter #12
It's a done deal and there were no problems. It was a my FFL dealer to his California FFL dealer transfer and zero complications.
 
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