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Rewriting SAA history?

9K views 101 replies 40 participants last post by  Muley Gil 
#1 ·


We've had good discussions on who loaded 5 or loaded 6 in a Colt. But I don't much remember the "load one, skip one" discussion as anything but a CAS shooting table ritual to speed up the shooting. I'd never heard of load one skip one until the early '80s when Gordie Davis suggested it to me along with shooting in "costume". My Grandfather, who was taught by his father however taught us all to load 5 and turn the cylinder, fully cock and then lower on an empty chamber. Not sure my Grandfather ever wore a costume outside a Masonic Hall.

When a Colt SAA was actually used for one's protection you loaded what was required to get the job done. Be it 5 or 6. And if you were astute you fully rotated the cylinder to make sure the ammo would function in the gun. At least till the ammo was fired as the earliest 44-40 BP loads were known to jam up a Colt with primer flow. An intentional turn of the cylinder would also tell you if you missed putting a cartridge in every chamber of the cylinder.

Not everyone back in the day was a "gunman" :)

No one gave a chit I suspect if the cylinder got a ring from being mishandled while turning the cylinder. Making sure the gun worked likely was more important than ringing steel.

When I shoot, it is load six at half cock, then fully cock and start unloading down range. When I am at a SASS table with chamber checked match ammo and to keep the neebees from freakin while the match continues to run along smoothly, I "load 1 and skip 1". When I put on a gun to use as intended I load five, fully turn the cylinder and then fully cock to lower on an empty chamber. Yep, it takes some attention to the details to get that done.

Sure beats the chit out of having a gun jammed up after one round....when you need to fire that 2nd shot ;) Sure, it is added insurance, likely not needed today, unless of course it is.
 
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#31 · (Edited)
beemermark said:
Won't work with the SAA......
Odd.
Works in every caliber, modern Colt SAA I own. Likely scratch your cylinder fiddling with the position though. The smaller the case head the more damage is likely. Might try it with a 1st Gen firing pin if I get a chance tomorrow.

If a Cowboy fired a Colt with some $ in a chamber- the cowpokes beer money would get brunt up.
Had to try this. Folded a dollar bill into quarters and then rolled it up. Fired off five smokeless in a 45 and a 44 Special. No harm to the buck and the gun ran fine. BP ammo might make a difference. I'll try that tomorrow.
 
#33 · (Edited)
As Time progressed and these SAA’s were found in Civilian hands for use as protection and pleasure, use of such propagated the neccessity for a safer mode of carry. We were no longer in times of protecting ourselves from ambush of marauding, savage Indians.

People will say carrying and relying on the safety notch is dangerous; so is driving on a crowded highway with other vehicles. We steer clear and avoid potential accidents. We employ measures to make our trip to the grocery store or vacation across the country as safe as can be - but there’s always variables we cannot control: other drivers, weather, condition of our own vehicle and even wildlife to consider.
No matter what, we can only decrease the potential for an accident - unless we vacate the use of the firearm altogether.

This re-written text comes from actual test trials.
Eighteen and Twelve are not neatly divided by five. So here we have to deduce the cylinder was filled, and a time and accuracy trial was conducted.

This is from “A Study Of...” by Graham, Kopec and Moore.
 

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#36 ·
#40 ·
...Or maybe Hickock's 45 has a too large cylinder gap, and a well set up SAA would not burn the dinero
BP would likely make a difference as it burns hotter. But the biggest error I see is Hickock used fake money. Real money doesn't burn so easily. Real dollar bill will easily survive 5 rounds of smokeless and I'd bet BP as well. No reason not to simply chuck it out and load six if you needed a reload.
 
#39 · (Edited)
I think Colt made his SAA with six holes for a reason, and real men/cowboy's of the old west prob. used all six. just common sence. for all the safety minded folks you might try the
"Barney method", but then again, how many times has Barney almost shot himself in the foot :). and he's just as much a real cowpoke as the Duke. :)
 
#41 ·
In shooting CAS matches I would always do like Cozmo and turn the cylinder after loading to make sure rotation was unimpeded. I wish I had a nickel for every fellow shooter who told me "You know the easy way to load that, don'tcha?" and then proceed to educate me on the "load one, skip one" thing. I noticed it seemed like their SASS number was usually 70,000 higher than mine. As Cozmo pointed out, encountering a high primer or other out of spec issue is inevitable, especially if you reload. I'd rather have my gun function than bask in the "knowledge" of some particular loading procedure. And yet, somehow my gun would wind up with the hammer down on an empty chamber despite my not following the newly received advice. :eek:
 
#44 ·
Elmer Keith related the story several times of how a cowpoke he knew had a Colt sixgun fully loaded and while saddling his horse, the heavy iron stirrup fell and hit the hammer, discharging the gun and sending a bullet down the persons leg. It was no longer a time of imminent danger (the accident probably occurred in the 1920's) and the need to have six rounds chambered vs. the risk of accidental discharge was questionable. Maybe the cowpoke was carrying six because that's the way he always had done it and didn't know any better, and learned a painful lesson.
 
#49 ·
Come on guys, try to keep up :) The thread aint about loading five or six, it is about spinning the cylinder after you load to make sure the ammo will not bind up the gun on the first shot.
 
#56 ·
So in essence you are advocating spinning the cylinder because you may have loaded poorly manufactured ammunition?

Reloading SPECS are published for the shooters advantage to make and shoot safe, well-fitting cartridges.

Sample reloaded ammo every so many to ensue proper reloading technique. I do believe that’s RELOADING 101.
 
#50 ·
Well Shucks, after the 6th cartridge is loaded the hammer needs to come to full cock, which rotates that last cartridge past the loading window. If the cylinder turned enough with the cocking of the hammer what’s the problem?
Or another question...what’s the remedy if it does bind?

A slight bind isn’t a problem (in a pinch) with a swelled head, high primer or poorly resized case. Manual turning of the cylinder, hence the “flutes” aids in that.

Free spin really proves nothing other than the cylinder is not impeded in any way. But if there’s a bad guy or some Indian hacking on your weak arm with a Tomahawk you’d be darn sure to move that cylinder one chamber to firing position to slow or stop the threat.
 
#51 ·
LABill sez..
If the cylinder turned enough with the cocking of the hammer what’s the problem?
A slight bind isn’t a problem (in a pinch) with a swelled head, high primer or poorly resized case. Manual turning of the cylinder, hence the “flutes” aids in that.
If the recoil shield kept the cartridges in one position and equal distance from the cylinder face to the firing pin/breach face on a 360 degree turn, from first insert of the cartridge to cartridge ejection past the firing pin it wouldn't be an issue. But a Colt SAA has not always done that. It's basic SAA 101 stuff. Since the recoil shield is not totally flat, a complete spin of the cylinder is prudent. A cartridge that will fit in the loading gate and turn may not make it into firing position as the head space tolerences change depending on the location of the cartridge on the breech face and cylinder position.

If you have actually had to manually turn a stuck cylinder you'll find it aint all that easy to get done even with flutes to help. The remedy as anyone who has experienced it knows is either manually force the cylinder around enough to get the bolt to drop, then pull the cylinder. Not in any way easy and actually dangerous if it is a high primer. The other option is to detail strip the gun to get the offending cartridge/cylinder out of the gun.

Couple of Colts in the photos and why what was suggested is nonsense. Note the machine line of the breach face just prior to the firing pin bushing. I call it the "berm" for lack of a better name. I was told the frames are cut that way intentionally....to make the gun more reliable with the variable ammo.


Here is a 1912, 1st Gen with no frame "berm"



A 2nd Gen with a ratehr pronounced "berm".



And a 3rd with the "berm".



Most Ubertis and Piettas have a "berm". USFA guns do not. Can't tell you when the "berm" first appeared or why it disappeared. Don't have my other 1s Gen guns to make a comment on them. Same "berm" that will often as not totally jam a gun up it you try to cock it with the muzzle pointed at 90 degrees up. Point the gun at the ground and the gun cycles easily with the same ammo.
 
#52 ·
No no. Ding ding FALSE!!

We are talking all the same ammo. Not mixed batches. Not sloppy handloading.

If the cartridges fall into the chambers with no or little effort, the first loaded cartridge will be the same as the 6th. Will it not?

Step or No Step. First, 2nd or 3rd generation matter not.
If the first cartridge rotates 4/6th of the way around like the succeeding other four, then the 6th will too.

Shoddy reloading practices or mixed batches of unknown tolerances will jam up the works. That’s NOT the SAA’s fault. It’s the user.
 
#53 · (Edited)
This UBERTI (I keep having to remind myself at times this is a Colt Forum and not Uberti) Cylinder is at the 5th Cartridge loaded well into the stepped area (headspace) you mention, before the 6th cartridge is dumped in.

Thats enough of a test right there.
If number 5 wont allow the cylinder to advance something is wrong.
No free spinning would ever remedy that.
So to say load one, skip one as a test for free spinning would be incorrect.
 

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#60 ·
Coz,
Your thread, but I was wondering if running 'loaded' factory ammo(.44-40, 200 rounds)back through a resizing-die, that won't chamber flush in an SAA cylinder, a totally safe/smart thing to do? My RCBS "RELOADING 101" book does not cover this contingency. Thanks.
 
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