[Walter Rego]

I suspect for the average citizen at the time like a farmer, rancher, merchant or someone who was not really using or dependent upon a firearm for their livelihood, their choice of a firearm was driven by what was on the shelf at the local hardware or general store. How many of them would want something so specific that they would order it from a Sears catalog or ask the local merchant to order something from the factory for them ?
As others have said, a lot of shotguns were kept behind the back door of the farmhouse and inexpensive top break handguns purchased to slip into a coat pocket if they felt the need to be armed while traveling.

By sheer numbers, people who weren't professional gunmen or trade hunters far outnumbered people who were very knowledgeable about firearms and wanted something very specific in a handgun and rifle.

 

[sturmgewehr]

Question 🙋‍♀️

What was reliability issue with the 44-40? Pete

 

[LonesomePigeon]

I noticed three or four of those Rangers have ivory or pearl stocks on their Colt's. The one on the far left also has a double action.

 

[GRI]

Colt sold many different models besides the SAA. Guns such as the Lightening and Thunderer certainly would have no Winchester paring. As to using Winchester to export Colt pistols to Mexico and the rest of Latin America, it could be at times. However, Colt did used their San Francisco Agency to send guns by steam ship to Mexico and Latin America.

 

[Mikebiker]

I Finally found that double action on the far right, not left. The 1876 Winchester was never an extremely popular gun as it was very large and heavy. That and the fact it was not big enough to chamber the 45 -70 was why Winchester wanted Browning to come up with a better gun, the 1886. Style and tradition also play a big part in choices. If everyone has a Winchester do you really want to the guy with the Whitney? Matching calibers seems like a real easy choice to us who have read countless articles on the subject. At the time of this picture nearly all large belt pistols were in 45 Caliber. This started to change in the late 1870s but I doubt it was a rapid change. In the US Colt dominated the large pistol market. Worldwide S&W had a much larger chunk of the market. S&W and Remington supplied guns to the armies of the world. The Rolling block and S&W top break were built in huge numbers compared to just about anything else. The market for civilian belt pistols was never a huge one and Colt was firmly established as the leader. Others tried and most failed at it. Caliber choices were very limited then as compared to now and just like Ford or Chevy I suppose some folks were one or the other and hard to sway in another direction.

 

[Wyo]

In April 1909 a group of five local cowboys launched a midnight raid on a sheep camp south of Ten Sleep, WY. The event was known as the Spring Creek Raid, and they murdered three herders and burned their wagon. This was one of the last of the sheep/cattle range wars in the US. The time frame here is interesting because there were lots of more modern firearms available by then and the area was about as remote as it was possible to be. Still is. If there was ever a good locale to carry a revolver/rifle combo this would have been it. The weapons that were used in the raid were well documented - there were no rifle/revolver combination guns. Instead, the various participants on both sides used three 30-30's, two 25-35's (presumably Model 94's) and a Model 8 Remington in 35 Remington. Only one revolver was used, a Colt 45, probably a SAA but that was never specified. The famous Joe LeFors was around for the aftermath and he carried a "Winchester rifle" - no further information specified - and what was probably either a 1903 or 1908 Colt auto pistol. Now this group is hardly representative of the general population at the time, but they were just a bunch of plain 'ol cowboys who were likely in tune with general trends. It seems fairly clear that they preferred rifles over handguns when they had a choice, and they preferred the more modern, more effective rifles in nearly every instance. Maybe they carried combo setups in their earlier days but that was clearly ended by 1909.

 

[Tall]

I think Winchester would have chambered their rifles for the .45 Colt but the old balloon head cases don't have much of a rim. Winchester rifles all needed a good rim to be able to eject the empty shell. Back then the .44-40 was the round with a good rim so it was used in lots of old Winchester designs, for the guy who wanted both to match. Colt six guns of course have the ejector rod punching empties in the center so they are not as picky.

A serious rifle man would want a longer, more powerful rifle cartridge, so he might not be a customer for matching weapons.

 

[Cozmo]

Back then the .44-40 was the round with a good rim so it was used in lots of old Winchester designs.

The 44WCF (Winchester Center Fire) also known as the .44-40 Winchester was introduced in 1873 by the Winchester Repeating Arms Co. It was the first metallic center fire cartridge manufactured by Winchester, and was promoted as the standard chambering for the then new Winchester Model 1873 rifle. The cartridge and it rimmed design was developed specifically for the 1873 Winchester. Other lever gun manufactures of the time adopted the 44WCF cartridge for the same reasons Winchester developed it originally. It was also used by Winchester again in the Single shot Winchester Model 1885 Low Wall, and almost 20 years later again, in the Winchester 1892.

The 38wcf or 38-40 was introduced by Winchester in 1874. The 32wcf also known as the 32-20 again by Winchester, was introduced in 1882. Both were developed by Winchester specifically for the 1873 rifle.

 

[SavvyJack]

I read somewhere, years ago, that the most common tool in a pre WWII home was a shovel.

By far the most common gun in any home pre WWII was a shotgun.
Way more shotguns (first and foremost simply because of price) sold by any count than any rifle or handgun ever.

Marlin produced 250,000 lever guns in the three WCF calibers between 1889 and 1935. Winchester produced almost 2 million more between the 1873 and the 1892.

A total of 2,250,000 rifles chambered in the "WCF "pistol" calibers" as we know them today. And a total of 193,654, 1st Gen Colts manufactured in the same calibers.

Handgun, even cheap handguns were/are an uncommon commodity at any time. Shot guns and rifles have always outsold the handgun. Simple reason. It takes a lot more skill to hit anything with a handgun than it does with a rifle. If foraging/hunting for food or self-defense a shot gun is much more effective with even less skill required.

The really effective cartridge for foraging/hunting for food (up to deer size animals) is a .22 rimfire rifle.

32-20
38-40
44-40

All the WCF cartridges are wonderful rounds that have and can be very useful. Just don't believe that many thought two of a kind made the "perfect pair" when there were so many other better combinations available.

Great write up Cozmos...

Lets don't forget that it was Winchester that created the WCF designation and Marlin, through UMC, that created the "dash" designations.

The one cartridge folks continuously omit is the 30 W.C.F (30-30) from 1894

At the start of 1873 to 1885 I think there were a lot less people "Out West" and a lot more people on the "East Coast" that wanted the .45s. Aside from the military, many agencies used the 45 over the other cartridges such as security firms, banks, police, transportations, jails etc that had no use for rifles.

As I mentioned once before, most of our famous "outlaws and lawmen" used other than the 45 Colt and 44-40 until after 1880. What 45's were documented by most famous outlaws and lawmen before the late 1880's were early sn# ex-military 45s. Even during the O.K shoot-out, it was reported that only maybe one 45 was used and two cowboys had 44 WCF revolvers that matched their 44 WCF Winchesters. The rest were of the older "obsolete" cartridges....10 years after the 1873 firearm improvement year.

When one separates government (other than military), business, city dwellers, etc (to include gamblers).....the WFC rifle/revolver cartridge was only used by a few country folks that had more money to spend than others may have had.

Like you said...and to add....most sod busters had shotguns...and most mountain men had the large cartridge buffalo guns......while it would be the "cowboy/drifter", whom was always on the go, that would desire the same cartridge for both rifle and revolver.

Thus...
I believe it would be the "cowboy/drifter" type that desired the same WCF cartridge for both rifle and revolver.

There are two things that have destroyed our Old West historical accuracy and those are tv Westerns and CAS/SASS.

 

[Cozmo]

There are two things that have destroyed our Old West historical accuracy and those are tv Westerns and SASS.

Some true words there.

I believe it would be the "cowboy/drifter" type that desired the same WCF cartridge for both rifle and revolver.

Two really good observations, I think. "Desired" being the key word compared to the reality of actually owning them.

The cattle kings spread north from Texas eventually all the to Montana, from the 1850s on. Cowboys to ride herd over thousands of head was the norm for $30 a month, or less, and chuck. And it was slim chuck at that. Along came the winter of '86/'87 and all that came crashing down. Known as the "Big Die Up", The cattle froze and starved to death that winter and well into the late Spring that year. It wrecked a lot of outfits, their owners and sent cowboys packin'. That winter was also the end of the open range.

Between 1860 and the Henry rifle to the '73 Winchester carbine I have no doubt matching handgun to rifle was a combo every working cowboy would aspire to. With the invention of the '86 you had lot more power and almost the same weight as a '73. '73 carbine weights in @ 6.5#, the '86 carbine @ 7.5# .

More power in a '86 and a lot less weight than a Winchester '76 @ no less than 10# for a short rifle. A '94 carbine is 6# and '92 carbine in .44 is 5.5#.
The most modern technology cost a lot of money then, just as it does now.

What had been "good wages" and steady work became a long line of unemployed cowboys riding the "grub line" south (working for just the rider and his horse's food) from as far north as Canada down to the warmer climate and cows still alive in Texas, California and anywhere in the SW that still had cattle and work. Those losses and the resulting exodus with the accompanied unemployment was still felt up to and well after WWI. Generational ranch families still talk about the winter of '86 in quiet, hushed terms with a wary eye out for the next winter, that is still coming.

Tough times then. A handgun at any time was a luxury even for a cowboy. Most big outfits didn't allow them on the range. Rifles were common and good bit more useful. '73 carbines were very common into the teens of the next century in a saddle boot. '92 less so, as the '94 was almost as light as a '92 but a lot more power and easier to hit with.

A lot changed for cattlemen (the world for that matter) from 1850 to 1886. Including what guns got carried. All the older lever guns, were pretty much replaced by the '94 in most cases with rare exceptions. Good enough to still going strong today. But cowboys have never been rich. I'd guess few ever prioritized having a better firearm over a better saddle. On most those early cattle drives if a cowboy had a revolver at all it was a cartridge conversion. Why? They were cheap. And if he was lucky a lever gun that would take a 44 rim-fire to match.

The "grub line"? It has been replaced by "day work".
Both versions of the movie, "Monty Walsh" cover the story good enough to give you a feel for the changes the winter of '86/'87 instigated.

Reading about it can be tough. If you know much about Roosevelt, his comment says a lot. The "losses" weren't just financial.

Future president Theodore Roosevelt's cattle ranch near Medora, Dakota Territory was among those hit hard by that winter. In a letter to his friend, Henry Cabot Lodge, Roosevelt remarked "Well, we have had a perfect smashup all through the cattle country of the northwest. The losses are crippling. For the first time I have been utterly unable to enjoy a visit to my ranch. I shall be glad to get home."

 

[Mikebiker]

The west was romanticized and fictionalized from the very start with dime novels and the Wild west shows. The novels were being published and the shows put on the very same time the true history was being made. It didn't have to wait for the movies and TV to be distorted.

 

[Mk VII]

True. Even as the frontier was being laid to rest, the Wild West shows were touring the big eastern cities.

 

[Cozmo]

Agree with you Mike....to some extent. Not much, but some.

A lot of difference between Bill Cody and Sitting Bull hanging out and shooting the breeze, 1885 in NYC, than any SASS match. I'd guess the stories in NYC were a lot better for one

The farther you get from anything, via time or distance, the farther reality and truth gets left behind.

What a kid in New York thinks is a cowboy, be it 1885 or 2021, is gonna be a whole lot different than what a kid in Jordan Valley Oregon thinks is a cowboy.

For those alive today, dime novels and the Wild West Shows of yesteryear have little to no influence compared to the TV Westerns of the '50s and more recently SASS. Although I'll give you the fact, that dime novels were the basis of a good many 50's TV Western if you look at them closely. SASS today? All it takes to see that, is a look at the new series "1883" and John Dutton's totally inaccurate SASS two gun rig or the lack of period clothing for the two main male actors.

It may have all started with dime novels..and likely did. But a much bigger hit on historical fact than a dime novel or any one of the traveling road shows of the early 1900s, happens damn near every day....today. The pile gets deeper every day and no shovel is ever gonna be big enough to much all that manure out.

 

[SavvyJack]

Another thing to consider, although not necessary related, would be that the 38-40 (73'), 44-40 (73') and the 45-70 (76'/86') all had nearly identical trajectories for the first 200 yards... and close at 300 yards. For those hunters that survived by owning a rifle, transitioning from one to another was a bit more forgiving on aim points.

 

[SavvyJack]

The "Army" placed an order for 8,000 M1873 "45 Colts" during 1873. By 1874, they were well distributed, as well as in Custer's regiment. As early as October 1874, prominent gun dealer Benjamin Kittredge & Co of Cincinnati began marketing Colt's new pistol as The Peacemaker for the civilian market. Another distributor, Henry Folsom & Co acquired and sold off a few of 18 that were displayed during the 1876 Expo. Of those 18 displayed, the following 5 sn#s were on a receipt from Folsom...8,900, 8,925, 8,926, 8,927 and 8,928. These 5 sn#s are a bit higher than 8,000 and were engraved. William B. "Bat" Masterson purchased a Colt from the Colt Company on July 30, 1885. Between October, 1879, and October, 1885, he ordered at least eight Single Action Army revolvers directly from the Colt factory. He kept some for his own use while giving the others to friends as gifts. The first of these, marked "W. B. Masterson," sported a 7-1/2-inch barrel. Yet, of the remaining seven, two had 5-1/2-inch barrels while the rest were 4-3/4-inches in length. Colt displayed some long-barreled single actions at the Philadelphia Centennial Exposition in 1876, it was not until December 1, 1877, that any left the Hartford assembly plant for actual sale. Johnny Ringo at some point acquired sn# 222, found next to his body in July 13, 1882. Billy the Kid somehow ended up with sn# 361. Virgil Earp somehow acquired sn# 808 by 1881. Frank Jackson acquired sn# 934. Jessie James acquired sn# 1,222. Frank Stilwell is reported owning sn# 1,381. Charlie Reynolds (killed at little bighorn) had sn# 2,499. Gen Alfred Terry (Commander Dakota Territory from later 72' to 86') acquired sn# 4,507. sn# 4,995 recovered from the Custer battlefield. Lt William Reily lost and paid for sn# 5,125, then issued sn# 4,815...killed at LBH. "Spotting Crow" took possession of sn# 5,128 from LBH. The back strap of sn# 6,048 was found at LBH during the 1984 archeological survey. Sebastian Outlaw acquired sn# 6,285. An Ainsworth inspected SAA sn# 10,344 was customized for Sheriff "Fay A. Brown during refurbishing. By 1882, some 73,729 revolvers reported manufactured. As can be seen from the civilian cartridge box top labels, the civilian market had access to civilian versions of the 45 Colt cartridges as early as 1875 and I must assume maybe even earlier before items were printed in catalogs. Unlike today, catalogs were not printed very often. Meaning the civilian ammunition was more powerful than the lightly loaded military ammunition by Frankford Arsenal. On a side note, the civilian market also offered the lighter loaded 45 Colt cartridges.

Chasing The 45 Colt

docs.google.com

 

[highway08]

Good topic. About all I’ll say is if you need to make the shot count in an open country, you want a rifle chambered in something that will reach out there and do the job. .44 WCF would be no match .45 Government (.45-70).

 

[GRI]

From “The Great Train Robbery” in 1903 until this day the biggest influence on how people perceived the West was movies. Hell, the best known movie cowboy wore a wig. Not many in the old west wore one, let alone a cowboy, but here we are. We talk about “correct” guns in a movie, but where are the correct saddles?

 

[Cozmo]

where are the correct saddles?

A few get the saddle right. Not many, but a few. Selleck's movies usually do. Tombstone did. JW? Anything he did as a leading man later in life used a low cantle trail saddle. There was a good reason for that. JW's signature Colt carried, low, behind the hip required a low cut cantle.

A couple of period correct (1870s, 80s) saddles Selleck had made for his movies.

JW's saddle from the Shootist.

And one of JW's personal saddles. A plain version of this would have been period correct for a movie set in 1930s and on.

More on saddles.
Old West Saddles, Will Ghormley - Maker, Historically Accurate, Quality

 

[SavvyJack]

About all I’ll say is if you need to make the shot count in an open country, you want a rifle chambered in something that will reach out there and do the job. .44 WCF would be no match .45 Government (.45-70).

Now we are talking apples and oranges, firearms vs cartridges.

Like I said, the trajectories for the 44-40 and the .405" 45-70 are nearly identical out to 200 yards. Hitting a deer with the 44-40 at 200 yards and hitting a buffalo with a 45-70 at 200 yards is comparing apples and oranges. While the 44-40 has barely 440ft lbs of energy, the 45-70 is around 844ft lbs at the 200 yard impact distance. In comparison, a .270 Winchester has about 1,815ft lbs of energy at 200 yards. How that energy is converted depends on the ammo design.

Now, lets look further at the 44-40 at 200 yards. I chronographed my 44-40 loads at 265 yards and had an impact velocity of 950fps with only an 11 to 12 degree trajectory at impact with a downhill slope/58' lower elevation at 265 yards. Remove the downhill slope and the trajectory at impact is even tad less. So if a shooter's 950fps revolver loads can't kill anything at the muzzle, then neither can my rifle loads at 265 yards.

Now we have to consider accuracy....even a caveman can hit a target with a 270 at 200 yards!

 

[SavvyJack]

A few get the saddle right. Not many, but a few. Selleck's movies usually do. Tombstone did. JW? Anything he did as a leading man later in life used a low cantle trail saddle. There was a good reason for that. JW's signature Colt carried, low, behind the hip required a low cut cantle.

A couple of period correct (1870s, 80s) saddles Selleck had made for his movies.
JW's saddle from the Shootist.

And one of JW's personal saddles. A plain version of this would have been period correct for a movie set in 1930s and on.


More on saddles.
Old West Saddles, Will Ghormley - Maker, Historically Accurate, Quality

Always did like Tom's saddles!!!!

He also has/had a 44-40 Winchester 92' with the High Velocity ammunition...sold for $69,000

Winchester Model 1892 16 Inch Barrel Trapper's Carbine | Rock Island Auction

Outstanding, Possibly Finest Known, Winchester Model 1892 Lever Action Trapper's Saddle Ring Carbine with Highly Desirable 16 Inch Barrel in .44 W.C.F.Manufactured in 1925, this is one of, if not THE finest Winchester Model 1892 Trapper's Carbines we have ever had the pleasure of offering at...

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