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RS on Gunbroker

5K views 41 replies 22 participants last post by  prewar 
#1 ·
Looks pretty good to me but sadly I have been fooled before and have only caught the discrepancies once in hand. Gun is not too far from me so I might be able to get a hands on inspection before hand. My only concern right now is the feed ramp as I can not tell if it is patina or finish on the polished area. What does the forum think about this one.
 
#9 ·
Without any serious knowledge of 1911's, I was struck by the look of the #'ing on the slide.
Then I read a post that made a comment about it.
The #'s have been struck with a different set of dies than the frame.
Jack The Dog's gun looks like they used the same dies.
The seller has A+ feedback.
Maybe he has been fooled before too?
 
#11 ·
It's my understanding that workers on the line would occasionally have to replace a worn die or stamp from time to time. Looks to me as if the "1" at the end of the serial number was struck with a fresh tool. If I were bidding on the gun, it wouldn't bother me...
 
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#12 · (Edited)
I have to agree with lumberjack, that the big concern is the feedramp not being clearly polished. It might be patina but should it be. The rest of the gun looks so good, that I would have to say that "Jack the Dog's" RS isn't near as good a condition in my opinion. But Jack's is clearly original and this one may be a restoration or refinish if the feed ramp isn't originally polished. I don't feel that the numbers have been modified. Odd stampings like the 1 on this gun do happen and are not all that rare. The numbers in the slide don't look like they were stamped with the same stamps on either this RS or the one on Jack's site. Take a close look at the 7's. The 7 stamped in the slides isn't even close to the 7 in the frame number on either pistol. I would doubt that the same stamps were used in manufacturing.
 
#14 ·
Anyone that could do a restoration of that quality sure wouldn't forget to correctly polish the feed ramp. Feed ramp is in shadows, but still looks good.
Due to the type of die used to stamp the serial numbers, that just happened occasionally. The serial number certainly wasn't engraved or pantagraphed.
 
#15 ·
Barrel looks new, while the recoil spring plug and barrel bushing show the typical signs of numerous field strippings. Conversely, would not a faker erase the idiot scratch?
 
#16 ·
An example of not all the numbers being the same size. The dies were wedge shaped, so the harder and deeper they were struck the larger the number they produced.

On this one the 1 is struck the deepest making it the largest, the 9's not struck quite as deep, but still larger than the 8.

 
#17 ·
An example of not all the numbers being the same size. The dies were wedge shaped, so the harder and deeper they were struck the larger the number they produced.

On this one the 1 is struck the deepest making it the largest, the 9's not struck quite as deep, but still larger than the 8.

Make sense.
I was referring to the different fonts, as in the 4's on the OP's gun.
 
#20 ·
The fonts on the numbers were not the same and do not match. The serial number on the receiver was stamped by a machine while the serial number on the slide was hand stamped with a different set of dies.

The barrel shows little scuffing compared to the interior of the pistol, and could be a replacement. Nothing like seeing it in person. Odd that they would take 8 photos of the incorrect magazine.
 
#22 ·
The fonts on the numbers were not the same and do not match. The serial number on the receiver was stamped by a machine while the serial number on the slide was hand stamped with a different set of dies.

The barrel shows little scuffing compared to the interior of the pistol, and could be a replacement. Nothing like seeing it in person. Odd that they would take 8 photos of the incorrect magazine.
Johnny
I looked at my pre war GM and the fonts do not match.
The slide #'s are also smaller.
Thanks for the lesson
 
#30 ·
Hi JohnnyP, About the blue A1 magazines. Just curious about how it was determined that full blued pin base magazines are what came with those guns from the factory? Also did those full blue magazines end suddenly like the brushed blue finish itself (on the guns) did at about the 734500 range? Best, Chris
 
#33 ·
Woah, hold up. I admit I jumped the gun in this. The frame sn is not the issue. The issue is the last digit "1" on the slide. It does not match font of any of the dozens of examples I have inspected on Scott Gahimers m1911info website. (Shout out to Scott. Goes to show his gallery is well worth the subscription price).

The finish may be original(looks), but the slide has been renumbered to match. Further research shows Jack the dog sold this same gun 727451 almost 2 years ago. His slide number pic below as well. So, in my opinion 727451 is not a correct pistol. It has a renumbered slide. Buyer beware.
View attachment 714645
View attachment 714646
View attachment 714647
Different font types were used for stamping. In your reference photo from Scott's site, it also has different font for #7, 5 & 2. Without inspect in person, it's hard to make a call on that.

Not as early as RS one sold. But I have a 1943 Colt with various font types on the stamping as well. Noted the 1 is the same font type as what was used in 727451.
 
#32 ·
Although construction changed, full blued magazines were used thru the end of production. The magazine finish did not change when the pistol finish changed from blue to phosphate. The major change in 1911A1 magazines was from pin base to welded base, and field replacement magazines manufactured by General Shaver had a welded seam down the back.

I would think that the change from the two tone magazines to full blued was determined from both Ordnance records and observation. Both Clawson and Meadows indicate the change was made in 1940. If this information is correct the Colt in the original post would have been shipped with a full blue pin base magazine.
 
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