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Discussion Starter #1
None of my LGS will provide me a copy of their FFL to send to a private seller of a handgun in which I wish to purchase. They tell me they can only send a copy (e-mail or fax) to another holder of a FFL. I was hoping to simply send my payment and copy of LGS FFl to the seller who would then take it to there LGS for shipment. They told me their was a bunch of funny stuff taking place and could not risk sending a copy of their FFL to anyone other than another FFL holder. Is there some legality in this decision or simply at the discretion of the FFL holder. Looking forward to your input.
 

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It's the dealers choice and most won't. The law does not require a FFL copy to be sent to a non licensed person. I will not send license copies to unlicensed people I do not know. A dealer can, if he chooses, pass on the first three and last five numbers of his FFL so a non licensed individual can easily verify the license and mailing address is valid via the ATF web site easy check system.
 

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Could have to do with laws in your area? You could check on that - might be a reason there.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
ohiobuckeye: Thanks for the reply. Thought at one time a dealer would offer a copy of his FFL and was surprised this time around. As gvf mentions in his post, could have something to do with the laws in my area. Going to look into it.
 

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The Searcher
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As Ohiobuckeye says, it is dealers choice. However, it has nothing to do with the "laws in your area". It is simply that the dealers are not knowledgeable or want to protect the brother FFLs ability to make money or want you to buy your guns from them not someone else. The not knowledgeable part irritates me. They have the license but did not have to learn anything about the laws to get it. They are afraid to do something that might lose them the license to charge. It is entirely legal for them to send a copy of their license. In fact, it is required so that the sender can prove where the gun is going if necessary. If someone buys a gun via internet and sends the FFL, it is going to be shipped to the FFLs address. If someone goes to a gun show and buys a gun with the FFL, they have to have false ID to match it. They are guilty of one or more crimes, but the FFL is not. My FFL, who is picky about many things and has been in the business many years, provides me with a copy of his current FFL to scan and attach to emails, which is the way most people choose to receive them these days. Don't be silly. Find yourself another FFL. :cool:
 

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My dealer gives me 3 signed copies of his FFL so when I travel out of state I can have any dealers I buy from at gunshows ship the gun to him. I also dont have to bug him for a copy when I buy from an online source unless I am out of copies. Like A1A said, find another FFL who is willing to give you a copy.
 

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My dealer gives me an ink signed copy of his FFL every time he gets it renewed. I make a PDF copy for my computer. When I buy a gun via the internet I send the seller an electronic copy. I generally call him after I make the purchase and let him know he'll be receiving a gun for me from "so and so",the address and approximate delivery date.
One time earlier in the year I forgot to tell him I had a gun coming in. When the box was delivered, he opened it and saw my 1944 Army Intelligence Detective Special. When he called me and told me it arrived, he laughed. He said when he saw that old DS he knew it was for me :D
 

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My local FFL knows how to make money. He is happy to provide a photo copy of his FFL, stamped with "COPY" all over it many times. I simply send the FFL copy with my payment and then the seller ships the gun to my FFL. Handguns shipped from a private seller to an FFL via FedEx go much smoother when the seller walks in with a copy of the FFL to show the FedEx worker that the address on the box is the same as the address on the FFL. Shippers are required to notify FedEx that the box contains a firearm.

My FFL charges $25 for the transfer and he makes lots of transfers. Easy money with very little overhead other than entering the gun in his log and making a phone call.
 

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I hate that "Funny Stuff has been going on".

I send my FFL out all the time to private individuals, what could they possibly do with it? If you live in Florida and have a copy of my license that says Keystone Arms, New Castle PA and you do not have a drivers license that says Marc Mitchell, what good could it possibly do you?

Let them miss out on the easy money of doing a 2 minute transfer and take it to the next dealer. The internet is the way of the future, sending licenses out is not going to go away.
 

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My FFL holder charges $13 to cover the background check on handguns and long guns are free! He wants to promote the shooting sports! I slip him a $20 any way for his trouble! His FFL makes USPS shipping possible and that is a savings as well.:cool:
 

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The Searcher
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Before someone jumps on it, a comment about prohibitive state laws. There are some states whose anti-gun laws prohibit an individual from sending a handgun from that state. I believe NY is still one. Even in that case, it is the responsibility of the individual to comply with any laws that apply to him/her, not the responsibility of the receiving FFL. However, it would be a good practice for a receiving FFL to be aware of those states and not "promote" a violation. Unfortunately, gaining knowledge in exchange for your fee is just too much work for a lot of people. Look what that gets you. :rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter #14
A1A; dandak; mm6mm6; keystonearms; malysh; : Threw up my post late last evening, but knew the troops would arrive early Saturday AM. Appreciate it guys. Good information and I am going to take your advice. Start looking for another FFL holder. Pain in the .... to have to request FFL information from the seller to give to my FFL to send a copy of their license. Another step in the process that can easily be avoided by following you guys suggestions. I consider myself an honest guy and would never compromise someones license. As for the "funny stuff". I think that was just a disguise, rather than tell the truth. Without proper ID, I have thought and thought and I can not come up with one iota of "funny stuff".

Have always been around guns, but only in the last year have I been able to get into purchasing and collecting some nice Colts. You guys have been invaluble with advice and suggestions. Thanks !!
 

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I'll tell a story that has some insight into some of the dealers mindset. Approximately 10 times a month a customer purchases a handgun and just sends me a name and phone number of the FFL to do the transfer. I call the FFLs and ask for their license. Here is a conversation that took place recently

"Hello XYZ Guns, this is Joe"...Hi Joe, my name is Marc owner of Keystone Arms. I sold a firearm online and the buyer would like you to do the transfer so I am calling you today to see if you could email or fax me a copy of your FFL for shipment. "OOOookkayyy, are you a FFL dealer yourself?" Yes Sir, I am a current license holder. "OOOOHHHh NO!, we don't do that!" I said you don't do what? Send a copy of your license to another dealer? and he said, "Oh, you are a dealer, okay".

He didn't even hear what I said. It was premeditated in his mind that he was going to tell me no and was anticipating the response so bad, it didn't even register. Sad stuff
 

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Here's the way I see it. First off full disclosure. I don't have an FFL license but I do hold a professional license that required 8 years of education and experience for application so I understand more than most about what a license can do for you and one's responsibility to others who hold the same license. The holders of FFL licenses have finally wised up. If they don't accept a gun from a none FFL shipper the shipper has to use an FFL. If all FFL holders refuse to accept shipment from anyone who does not hold an FFL the only way you are going to ship is through an FFL on both ends. This puts more money in every FFL holders pocket. Your local LGS doesn't make a lot of money selling guns anymore because of internet sales and the economy and this is a new source of income for them. If I had an FFL and were in business (in this state an FFL holder also has to have a business license and collect state sales tax on all firearms recieved) I would charge a fee for all guns shipped or recieved. That's the way it's going so just add that cost into the transfer of your gun. Everyone has to eat. Jim
 

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My FFL LGS will accept a gun from a private non FFL holder. However, they tell me that a private individual does not need a copy of their form. They only need to put a copy of their Drivers License in the box. That being said, most sellers want a copy of the form to make it easier to ship.
 

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In New York a private citizen can only ship a handgun directly to a Manufacturer and can only be done in a UPS or Fed Ex hub office.Otherwise it is FFL to FFL only.Also with NY law you need to have a distinct traceable paper trail on any handgun because Big Brother lists all of our handguns on our pistol license.Before we are alble to pick up a handgun a ammendment form must be filed,the new gun's info must be on the new license,a judge has to sign the "purchase coupon" and the NICS check needs to be done.My FFL won't accept from a private person because he has had buisness associates have such firearms shipped to them and they were stolen,or used in the commission of crimes creating needless headaches.
 

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I do not disagree with any of the above however I will present another example for you guys to consider: Not long ago I bought a rifle from a member of another forum. My LGS has handled several internet type sales for me from private (non-FFL holders) with no hitch and he was happy to help with this one for his usual modest fee. The rifle arrived and was properly logged in by my LGS. We then found that the seller had made a (probably innocent) mistake in description of the firearm. It was not what I wanted and I wished to return it to the seller. My friendly LGS and I understood that we could not legally ship it back to the seller for a refund since he did not have a FFL. Fortunately the seller was a gentleman, engaged the services of an FFL holder in HIS area and ate the fee. If he had chosen to be a jerk, it could have been a different story. As it was, my LGS had to have multiple conversations with the dealer that the seller was working with and arrange return shipment ... all without any income for him. He then told me, "Okay, we lucked out here but ... no more private sellers. Let's get them to ship only through a FFL." I think he has a right to do this and frankly it provides me (as a buyer) with a little more confidence in a seller when he is either a FFL holder or is working with one. It has nothing to do with laws or arcane government procedures ... just business.
 

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Back to the first answer. It is the dealer's choice. He/she can conduct business anyway he/she sees fit as long as it is legal. However, when you are told that it is illegal for an individual to ship a handgun across state lines or that the FFL does not have to send a copy of his license to an individual, you are dealing with someone who is either ignorant of the law or is lying to you "for business purposes". I would not trust that person to do my handgun transactions. If he/she tells you they are unwilling because they are uncomfortable or he/she believes it will be easier to resolve a problem if it is FFL to FFL, then at least they are being straight. In that case, it is your choice. If you are the seller and are lucky enough to have an FFL who will do the transfer and shipping reasonably, it is a no brainer. :)
 
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