Colt Forum banner

1 - 20 of 34 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Upon removing the ejector from a Colt Artillery that appears to have a proper Ainsworth script address barrel, I find serial number "0004" stamped on the barrel. Should this be viewed as a barrel where a Colt employee mistakenly stamped it "0004" rather than "4000"?

I think it implausible that:
(1) the four digit "0004" rather than "4" would have been used as the serial number for SAA serial number 4;
(2) that SAA serial number 4 was ever turned in for reuse as an Artillery;
(3) that SAA serial number 4 would have had its serial number stamped under its ejector, my understanding being that serial numbers of early SAA's were not placed under their ejectors but were openly visible on the bottom of their barrels;
(4) that, as in the case of the barrel address of this gun, there would have already been a break in the "o" in "Co" in the barrel address of very early SAA serial number 4, or
(5) that a faker would use serial number "0004" as the serial number for the barrel of an Artillery.

Any thoughts or suggestions you may have as to why serial number "0004" appears on the barrel of this Artillery under its ejector will be appreciated.

Thanks.

Rick Schreiber
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Thank you gentlemen. Yes, there is a small "P" and a small "A" near the partial serial number "0004". I think it much more likely that -- as you suggest-- the barrel is from Ainsworth s/n 10004 rather than a mistake in stamping this barrel 0004 when the intended serial number was s/n 4000. Somehow in looking at this gun with frame s/n in 5000 serial range and other parts with 4 digit serial numbers I overlooked what should have been the obvious; namely, that many Ainsworth marked guns have serial numbers above 10000 and thus serial number stampings that drop the first digit of 5 digit serial numbers. I don't know how to post photos on Forum. Any possibility that mrcvs or leveractionbill could post photos if I send to your email? Thanks again for answering my question.

rbs
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
I have a Colt Virginia 'buy back' revolver, listed my serial number in Cochran.s book as a buy back. the address is the anisworth address and the O in Co is NOT broken. the A is stamped all gun in the correct places and the proofs are correct under the bbl..
the sn is 14,1xx and again, all original including the India ink stamp on the wood grips.
My gun is a 5 1/2 inch bbl. that has been shortened by the factory and the sight, thin original, has been factory reset.
vestiges of nickel plating remain, which was done by S H and G to separate them from military guns after the Virginal buyback.
The shipping records show this as a gun shipped in 1874, Oct. to the US.
There have been other guns, authenticated, that have the O full and not cut.
who knows.. the opinion is that an e
IMG_2430.JPG
IMG_2434.JPG
IMG_2437.JPG
IMG_2439.JPG
arly barrel was used, taken from the parts bin, with the newer die stamp, before the O broke.
Colt did all sorts of things like this.
FYI Ken
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,272 Posts
I have a Colt Virginia 'buy back' revolver, listed my serial number in Cochran.s book as a buy back. the address is the anisworth address and the O in Co is NOT broken. the A is stamped all gun in the correct places and the proofs are correct under the bbl..
the sn is 14,1xx and again, all original including the India ink stamp on the wood grips.
My gun is a 5 1/2 inch bbl. that has been shortened by the factory and the sight, thin original, has been factory reset.
vestiges of nickel plating remain, which was done by S H and G to separate them from military guns after the Virginal buyback.
The shipping records show this as a gun shipped in 1874, Oct. to the US.
There have been other guns, authenticated, that have the O full and not cut.
who knows.. the opinion is that an e View attachment 713564 View attachment 713565 View attachment 713567 View attachment 713568 arly barrel was used, taken from the parts bin, with the newer die stamp, before the O broke.
Colt did all sorts of things like this.
FYI Ken
I once owned 136xx another likely Virginia gun. The address showed the broken O. I currently have 9798 which exhibits all the expected breakage. Some time ago I put forth my theory (like yours,) that Colt had a bin of barrels and pulled them out of stock as needed as opposed to manufacturing and rolling the barrel address for the individual gun. Therefore 2xxx may get a barrel with all the die breaks and 17xxx may get a pristine example. Who knows!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,231 Posts
Upon removing the ejector from a Colt Artillery that appears to have a proper Ainsworth script address barrel, I find serial number "0004" stamped on the barrel. Should this be viewed as a barrel where a Colt employee mistakenly stamped it "0004" rather than "4000"?

I think it implausible that:
(1) the four digit "0004" rather than "4" would have been used as the serial number for SAA serial number 4;
(2) that SAA serial number 4 was ever turned in for reuse as an Artillery;
(3) that SAA serial number 4 would have had its serial number stamped under its ejector, my understanding being that serial numbers of early SAA's were not placed under their ejectors but were openly visible on the bottom of their barrels;
(4) that, as in the case of the barrel address of this gun, there would have already been a break in the "o" in "Co" in the barrel address of very early SAA serial number 4, or
(5) that a faker would use serial number "0004" as the serial number for the barrel of an Artillery.

Any thoughts or suggestions you may have as to why serial number "0004" appears on the barrel of this Artillery under its ejector will be appreciated.

Thanks.

Rick Schreiber
On this U.S cavalry issue the barrel serial number was stamped above the ejector housing. Several others like this have been reported in this serial range.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,231 Posts
Upon removing the ejector from a Colt Artillery that appears to have a proper Ainsworth script address barrel, I find serial number "0004" stamped on the barrel. Should this be viewed as a barrel where a Colt employee mistakenly stamped it "0004" rather than "4000"?

I think it implausible that:
(1) the four digit "0004" rather than "4" would have been used as the serial number for SAA serial number 4;
(2) that SAA serial number 4 was ever turned in for reuse as an Artillery;
(3) that SAA serial number 4 would have had its serial number stamped under its ejector, my understanding being that serial numbers of early SAA's were not placed under their ejectors but were openly visible on the bottom of their barrels;
(4) that, as in the case of the barrel address of this gun, there would have already been a break in the "o" in "Co" in the barrel address of very early SAA serial number 4, or
(5) that a faker would use serial number "0004" as the serial number for the barrel of an Artillery.

Any thoughts or suggestions you may have as to why serial number "0004" appears on the barrel of this Artillery under its ejector will be appreciated.

Thanks.

Rick Schreiber
That barrel with 0004 on it likely came off of US Colt SAA #10004. I own #10225, and Kopek mentions in his first book that this was the highest reported US Colt SAA where all five digits were placed on the barrel and cylinder. These guns were not likely inspected in exact serial number order, so #10225 could have come before #10004. Sometime after #10225, the numbering procedure was changed.

Barrel #0004 could have also have come off of #20004, representing one of the last uses of italic barrels.

On my #1274 there is a break in A of "Hartford", but no break yet in the o of "Co". By the 7000 range both letters are already broken.

In reading thru all of the posts here (after sending tthis reply), I see that mrcvs also thinks the full SN may have been #10004.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,735 Posts
No Cavalry or Artillery Model revolvers were in the 20000 to 30000 range which is why a donor barrel of 20004 is an impossibility. If a serial number is 5 digits long and begins with a '2', it can only be civilian production.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,231 Posts
Upon removing the ejector from a Colt Artillery that appears to have a proper Ainsworth script address barrel, I find serial number "0004" stamped on the barrel. Should this be viewed as a barrel where a Colt employee mistakenly stamped it "0004" rather than "4000"?

I think it implausible that:
(1) the four digit "0004" rather than "4" would have been used as the serial number for SAA serial number 4;
(2) that SAA serial number 4 was ever turned in for reuse as an Artillery;
(3) that SAA serial number 4 would have had its serial number stamped under its ejector, my understanding being that serial numbers of early SAA's were not placed under their ejectors but were openly visible on the bottom of their barrels;
(4) that, as in the case of the barrel address of this gun, there would have already been a break in the "o" in "Co" in the barrel address of very early SAA serial number 4, or
(5) that a faker would use serial number "0004" as the serial number for the barrel of an Artillery.

Any thoughts or suggestions you may have as to why serial number "0004" appears on the barrel of this Artillery under its ejector will be appreciated.

Thanks.

Rick Schreiber
Pursuant to post #14, what we really need now is a picture of that 0004 barrel address. The o in "Co" is broken, but what about the A in "Hartford"? I suspect that it is also broken.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,231 Posts
No Cavalry or Artillery Model revolvers were in the 20000 to 30000 range which is why a donor barrel of 20004 is an impossibility. If a serial number is 5 digits long and begins with a '2', it can only be civilian production.
mrcvs - That is right. Good call! I am thinking only of civilian Colt SAA's in the 20000 range. I have two in the 22xxx range with italic barrel addresses.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,735 Posts
I have received photographs from rbs and this is certainly a Colt Artillery Model revolver worthy of submission to John Kopec. I urge him to submit it and, if he does, please make the findings known on the forum. We Colt Cavalry and Artillery Model nerds get great delight out of John's letters. www.johnakopec.com
The serial number of the frame is just outside of the "prime" Custer range, it being 5710 and the "prime" range being 4500 to 5500. However, the backstrap falls within this range, it being 4994, and this being the backstrap, adds 5 to 10% over what the value would be if no "prime" Custer range components.
IMG_8597.jpeg
IMG_8654.jpeg
IMG_8649.jpeg
IMG_8640.jpeg
IMG_8659.jpeg
IMG_8652.jpeg
IMG_8656.jpeg
IMG_8636.jpeg
IMG_8631.jpeg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
I've been collection colts for 40 yrs. was an antique gunsmith restorer for that time too. I did appraisals, and was in touch with R.L Wilson when I had questions. A great and nice man too.
Always took the phone calls.
One thing that he said and I agreed with was....Colt was a business, they used parts as needed from the parts bin. they were not looking at collectors like us, but profit .
they refinished, re serial numbered, made errors in logging, and in sn stamping, and then just moved on to the next.
I have seen sn's in the wrong place, numbers mixed 134 instead of 143, etc. all on original guns. One thing that made me always stop. was a R.L Wilson line. If it doesn't feel right, it isn't.
Look for quality. one thing Colt Always had....if the quality is not there, fit, finish, etc. then something is wrong.
Ken
 
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
Top