Colt Forum banner
1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi fellows,I´ve got a Colt 1911 A1, possibly from Colt´s brazilian contract of 1937, but all patent dates,trade marks and serial number were erased by some incompetent gunsmith.I know it´s a Colt because the VP( Verified Proof)on the left upper side of the trigger guard.Disassembling the piece though I found a number behind the plate that holds the firing pin - 193216.Could this be at least the slide serial # ?
Thanks for any info.
Regards to all , Raimundo.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,129 Posts
that serial should match your frame serial, are you sure it`s an A1, are the sides of the frame relieved behind the trigger?? that serial would have been made in 1917 if i am looking correctly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
312 Posts
Someone more knowledgable than I will respond shortly. S&W made some revolvers for Brasil in 1937, perhaps that is what you are referring to. The gunsmith should not have removed serial numbers from the frame, it is illegal to possess a frame with no serial number. Colt did number some 1911A1 slides, but I think in the 740,000 range. You may have to destroy the frame.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
811 Posts
Numbers on the slide or the barrel mean "NOTHING" unless they match the numbers on the frame. The serial number is on the frame and as said above, without one, I'd get rid of it /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,794 Posts
Based on your description, it probably was a Government Model, possibly Brazilian but more likely Argentine, from ca. 1937. The serial number on the frame was C193216 and it is illegal to possess as is. Does the mainspring housing have a lanyard loop? Does it have the Swartz safety?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,794 Posts
The Swartz safety was Colt's original design for a firing pin safety. It involves some extra parts and is deactivated by the grip safety. Kimber uses a very similar design now. If you look at the top of the frame with the slide pulled back there will be an extra (square) pin next to the disconnector. It is OK to own the slide and all other parts. It is only the frame that is illegal now.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,129 Posts
[ QUOTE ]
it is illegal to possess a frame with no serial number.

[/ QUOTE ]
the original poster is NOT located in the u.s., it`s possible it`s legal where he is, here in the usa it`s not.as an example a supressor is quite legal in most euro countrys, and illegal here without the tax stamp. go figure??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,794 Posts
Well...a silencer here is as legal as it is in Europe, i.e. you must have a special permit and pay the tax. Secondly, most of Europe, or S. America, or Mexico, or wherever Raimundo is from (how are we to know?) generally has stricter gun control laws, do they not?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
As a matter of fact I´m from Brazil and the gun was bought legally by myself from a brazilian army Lt.Colonel.At present moment it´s being transfered to my property according to present local gun laws.Another serial # was made on the frame, and under such the gun was registered to him and now passed on to me.
Yes, gun laws here are tough and worsening by the day.
All this fuss is because I wanted to know the mfg. date but now I know this it´s a impossible task.The slide is from 1917 but the frame isn´t a 1911, but a A1 with arched mainspring housing with a lanyard ring, cuts behind trigger guard, smaller trigger and so on , but the hammer appears to be from a 1911 with a big spur.No Swartz device though.
It´s a hybrid,a kind of Frankenstein but it´s the one I could afford. Haven´t shot it yet, but I disassembled it all right and it appears to be in good working order.
Whoever put the things together did it right.
Besides the 25K SW 1917 brazilian contract of 1937 there was another contract for 1911 A1 pistols also from 1937.That can explain the A1 receiver but not the slide.
The Lt. Colonel said to me this pistol was a gift from some general´s widow. Probably this general went with the FEB (Brazilian Expeditionary Forces)that fought under Gen. Mark Clark command on the Italian campaign in WWII and brought back this gun with him, having obtained it in full 1911 configuration there.Upon returning to Brazil he may wished from any reason to change the frame and installed a 1911 A1 one.Just a theory.
Regards, Raimundo.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,794 Posts
Raimundo,
What leads you to believe the slide is from 1917? Colt did not number slides in 1917 and that number would indicate 1937.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
According to www.proofhouse.com 186201 - 209586 are 1917/18, so 193216 sits in between.I just thought this number might be the erased one on the frame, but then it´s an A1.You say 1937? I can´t get it.
Regards, Raimundo.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,794 Posts
That table refers to US military pistols--M1911 and M1911A1. Pistols shipped on foreign contracts were commercial production which is to say they were "Government Model" pistols. The serial number on the frame would have been preceded by a "C" but the number stamped under the FPS plate did not have the C. Your pistol was a Colt Government Model, serial number C193216, shipped on the Brazilian contract. The slide originally had the standard Colt roll marks plus additional markings to indicate the Brazilian destination.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,129 Posts
[ QUOTE ]
wherever Raimundo is from (how are we to know?)

[/ QUOTE ]
i know raimundo from a previous post,this forum has existed longer than you have been a member. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,129 Posts
[ QUOTE ]
Well...a silencer

[/ QUOTE ]
there is no such thing as a "silencer" since the arm, even a .22 still makes some noise. the sound is surpressed, the correct term is then surpressor, i`m not sure about my spelling but you surely get my drift.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,794 Posts
Correct term according to whom? The inventor called them "silencers." It was pedantic know-it-alls that later decided that "suppressor" was a more "correct" term. Yawn.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well...a silencer

[/ QUOTE ]
there is no such thing as a "silencer" since the arm, even a .22 still makes some noise. the sound is surpressed, the correct term is then surpressor, i`m not sure about my spelling but you surely get my drift.

[/ QUOTE ]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,386 Posts
Hi Raimundo,

I notice that you said you were from Brazil... I realize that you may not have any knowledge about Argentine Colts but thought I'd ask anyway...

In 1895 Argentina bought 5000 Colt Model 1895 DA New Army Revolvers. The guns had special markings and special length barrels... I know that Argentina has released the Colt autos they bought, but I have never seen any of the 5000 DA New Army Models released. In fact I know of only Two examples in the USA... One came from the Connecticut State Library collection and the other was brought in years ago by an oil worker from South America. Do you know if Argentina has released any of these DA Colt revolvers, and if so, are they somewhere down in South America??? Any info would be greatly appreciated! Thanks! Bob best
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,129 Posts
[ QUOTE ]
Correct term according to whom?

[/ QUOTE ] smart people, like me.if you care to insult me in person, please contact forum admin or mitch, who have my permission to release my address. be glad to discuss it with you in person /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Hi Bob before you said it I have never heard about such revolvers.In spite of we all being south americans we do not have any contact with Argentina.What I know from them is their 1911 conception called Ballester- Molina.
All the best, Raimundo.
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top