[Long Spur Hollow]

Here is an interesting old Colt, with a combination of parts that I am wondering if you guys have seen before... I am looking forward to the discussion.

First off - I do not own this gun (yet), nor have I got any pictures of it at this time. I should be getting some pics later this week, and will post them when I do.

Ok, now the story - I was at a Gun Show last weekend and I ran across a man that brought this unique Colt 22 auto to the show to get some opinions on it.

It has a Service Model Ace slide - right side is marked "Service Model Ace" & ".22 Long Rifle" (and no mention of .45...so it is not a conversion unit) that was installed on Colt USGI 45 frame s/n 851xxx. The frame has all of the proper inspection marks, including WB and crossed cannons. The frame is also parkerized, and not refinished. The Service Model Slide has a brushed or matte blue (not highly polished) appearance, and looks like it is the original finish. So obiviosly - the finish on the slide and the frame do not match.

One would think from the above that someone simply installed a SM Ace Slide on a USGI frame....and it now is what it - is a mismatched piece, without much collector value. This is where the puzzle gets interesting! The slide is serial numbered to the frame (in the correct location behind the plate by the firing pin), and these numbers look correct in; format, size and shape...like all of my such numbered USGI 45's from that era.

I think that without a doubt - that the frame left Colt as a 45.

I feel that this was likely an armory modification with some parts from a damaged SM Ace, and perhaps done for a special project or competition... but why would they have put the 851xxx s/n on the slide in such a perfect and "factory correct" manner? My experience has been that when the armory modifies something "form follows function" in the numbering and stamping department.

Anyone ever see such a thing? any insights?

Thanks,
Mike

Edit on 2/17 - Pictures were added in a new post below today

 

[JohnnyP]

If the Service Model Ace slide is original Colt blue it would have originally been numbered to a SMA receiver no higher than SM 3836. Normally the area behind the firing pin stop plate shows the swirls from the machining operation, and if the original number was removed it shouldn't be too difficult to see. If the conversion was done at a military facility I would think that the entire pistol would have been refinished. Also, during rebuild the military facilities had no problem mixing numbered Colt slides onto receivers with different serial numbers.

 

[saintclair]

Having pictures will help in evaluation.

 

[JudgeColt]

What style of rear sight is on the slide?

 

[Long Spur Hollow]

What style of rear sight is on the slide?

Adjustable - standard Service Model Ace sight

Mike

 

[JudgeColt]

Adjustable - standard Service Model Ace sight

Mike

The Pre-War Service Model Ace had the Stevens rear sight, whereas the Post-War Service Model Ace had the Accro rear sight. Each was "standard" at the time is was in use. Therefore, to say the slide has the "standard" Service Model Ace does not eliminate the possibility that the frame in question has a Post-War Service Model Ace slide on it.

My point in asking is to determine whether the slide might be a Post-War slide that would not originally have a serial number under the firing pin stop. Therefore, a serial number COULD be easily added to a Post-War slide without the need to remove an existing serial number.

What style of rear sight is on the slide?

 

[tedm]

I think Judge is on the right track. IMHO the serial on the slide was added as or after the conversion was married to this frame.

 

[JohnnyP]

The Service Model Ace from near serial number SM 3837 to the end of WWII production had no serial number under the firing pin stop plate. From the OP's description, the upper is not a conversion unit.

Still waiting on photos.

 

[Long Spur Hollow]

Pictures added

Got some Pictures .... finally! Sorry about the delay guys.

Let the discussion continue....
Mike

 

[mhb]

Well...

I have #934757, which came to me cased together with a SM conversion unit with original parkerized finish, and the conversion having the last 3 digits of the frame SN in the same location as the full SN on yours. The .45 slide is, of course, marked with the full SN under the firing pin stop plate. Also, the magazines with the gun are marked with the last 3 digits, as well. I'm sure the case is a later addition, and the pistol is recorded as one of a group shipped to the U.S. Government, without any special comments. In addition, the pistol itself (the .45) carries British proofs.
I've often wondered about the history of this assemblage...

mhb - Mike

 

[Long Spur Hollow]

I have #934757, which came to me cased together with a SM conversion unit with original parkerized finish, and the conversion having the last 3 digits of the frame SN in the same location as the full SN on yours. The .45 slide is, of course, marked with the full SN under the firing pin stop plate. Also, the magazines with the gun are marked with the last 3 digits, as well. I'm sure the case is a later addition, and the pistol is recorded as one of a group shipped to the U.S. Government, without any special comments. In addition, the pistol itself (the .45) carries British proofs.
I've often wondered about the history of this assemblage...

mhb - Mike

That is very interesting! I have never heard of any USGI Colt 1911A1's - that are numbered with a "2 barrel & slide set".... .45 & .22 ... makes one like to know a bit more.
Mike

 

[mhb]

Some photos...

I apologize for the poor quality, but it's the best I could do with my little Sony...

mhb - Mike

 

[JohnnyP]

Along about the 1980's the Service Model Ace uppers were fairly common at gun shows. What was also common was boxes of the uppers torch cut through the chamber area, which were being sold for the sight.

This upper is still in the original Parko-Lubrite finish which was not sandblasted before finish, giving a very smooth finish.

 

[mhb]

Allowing for your better photograph...

the finish on my example appears to be the same as on yours.

mhb - Mike

 

[Long Spur Hollow]

the finish on my example appears to be the same as on yours.

mhb - Mike

As I said in my first post - I am almost certain that the slide is blue on s/n 851xxx ... but I guess it could be "Dura Coat" (or whatever they called the later post 1945 process).

The early model Stevens adjustable rear sight could be "a clue" according to an earlier post by someone. Waiting for that poster to chime in again.

Mike