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Taking the advice of the forum members, I decided to return my Trooper to Colt for servicing. I called Colt and received detailed instructions: Address, packaging, marking etc. Shipped the gun overnight by FedEx (as recommended). Checked the tracking # today and my on line query returned two shipments with the identical tracking #? I though "what the hell is going on" - so I called Colt. Gave them the name of the person who signed off on the delivery. Guess what? They don't recognize the name! FedEx says they delivered the package and are going to "interview" the driver. Colt has called out their own security dogs......Meanwhile, I'm getting highly pissed. I will let the forum members know how this gets resolved (if indeed it does). Good news was that I had the gun insured...The bad news is that it will be hard to find another in equal condition. Boy this sucks major league!
 

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Holy macaroni! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

I sure hope things turn out for you. I'm very interested in hearing how this turns out as I'm am considering returning a Model 357 to Colt for some work.

Mike
 

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This indeed is an interesting turn of events.

I've returned guns to Colt on 4 occasions over the past few years and I've never had an issue. My most recent shipment was right after T-giving weekend last year. When I checked the address on coltsmfg.com, it says to ship to Talcott Rd, West Hartford, CT. No number in the address. However I do recall that they used to say 25 Talcott Rd. When I shipped my gun from the UPS depot near my house, they would not accept Talcott Rd., I had to specify the number. I put 25 Talcott Rd. and sent the gun. Next day I checked the tracking number and called Colt and they did receive the gun no problem.

I realize this is unrelated to your issue but keep this in mind if you ship a gun to Colt.
 

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The Searcher
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Two things. 1)Did you tell Fedex it was a gun? 2)Just sending to so obvious a company name can be inviting. Despite the "requirements", most recommend you don't divulge the contents of the package, or if you must, claim or label it as parts. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 

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the fact that you got 2 seperate #`s on your tracking inquiry show a tech. error by fedx. i`m sure they will straighten it out once the penalty is explained to whoever rec. the package. the address colt gives doesn`t have the word colt in it, i think it`s crd{colt repair dept.} or something simular. since it`s your gun and not changing owners you do not have to declare the package containes a firearm.let us know how you make out. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 

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Yes, the address thing is something that most companies realize - I hadn't looked at Colt's directions. I wasn't necessarily referring to Federal requirements, but rather what the shippers try to impose. The overnight delivery is "their requirement" to reduce their exposure to their own staff and in the case of Fedex: "Firearms must be shipped via FedEx Priority Overnight service. FedEx cannot ship or deliver firearms C.O.D. or with a signature release. Upon presenting the package for shipment, the person tendering the shipment to FedEx is required to notify the FedEx employee who accepts the package that the package contains a firearm. The outside of the package must not be marked, labeled or otherwise identify that the package contains a firearm. Firearms shipments cannot be placed in a FedEx Express Drop Box." /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 

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[ QUOTE ]
since it`s your gun and not changing owners you do not have to declare the package containes a firearm.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, that's not at all correct. From FedEx's Service Guide:

[ QUOTE ]
FedEx Express can only accept and deliver firearms between areas served in the U.S. under the following conditions: (1) you agree to tender shipments of firearms to us only when either the shipper or recipient is a licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, licensed dealer or licensed collector and is not prohibited from making such shipments by local, state or federal regulations; (2) the shipper and recipient must be of legal age as identified by applicable state law.

Firearms must be shipped via FedEx Priority Overnight service. FedEx cannot ship or deliver firearms C.O.D. or with a signature release. Upon presenting the package for shipment, the person tendering the shipment to FedEx is required to notify the FedEx employee who accepts the package that the package contains a firearm. The outside of the package must not be marked, labeled or otherwise identify that the package contains a firearm. Firearms shipments cannot be placed in a FedEx Express Drop Box.

[/ QUOTE ]

I always caution my customers to follow the shipping requirements TO THE LETTER, for just the reason that started this thread. A friend of mine, also a gunsmith, was receiving a pistol for some custom work; the client didn't ship Priority Overnight, nor did he declare to the counter clerk that the package contained a firearm. The package disappeared (to my knowledge, it's never been found) and insurance coverage was denied.

FedEx maintained that since he had willfully violated their terms of service, that the insurance contract was voided. The client tried to recover via the courts, but was unsuccessful. A contract is a contract, and this one had been voided by the actions of the client party.

I hope that everything turns out well in this case. It should, however, serve as a reminder to everyone else: you may not like it, but you've got to do it the FedEx/UPS/whoever way.
 

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shipping firearms is at best a gray area, everyone you speak to has a different opinion that is the gospel according to whoever they talked to.10 queries to the batf will yeild 9 very different and specific versions /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif.that being said i have never shipped by fedx. i HAVE returned a gun to colt by us post and had no problems.
 

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Hope things work out for you. Several years ago I shipped a Kahr MK9 back to the factory. After 6 weeks past and I didn't get it back (they had said 4 weeks) I called and found they had not received it! UPS had a signature and insisted they delivered it.

Keeping the story short, EVENTUALLY, I got UPS attention and they followed up. Driver had delivered it to a private residence even though clearly labeled for Kahr and I did declare to UPS it was a firearm. Yes, I got it back.

Now, I always call factory to make sure firearms are actually delivered rather than depend on tracking numbers and signatures.

John
 

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[ QUOTE ]
shipping firearms is at best a gray area, everyone you speak to has a different opinion that is the gospel according to whoever they talked to.10 queries to the batf will yeild 9 very different and specific versions /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif.that being said i have never shipped by fedx. i HAVE returned a gun to colt by us post and had no problems.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry fellows, but there ain't no gray area here. FEDERAL law requires the sender to inform the carrier that he is shipping a firearm. Anyone can legally ship a handgun to an FFL via common carrier, but only an FFL can legally ship a handgun to another FFL via US Postal Service. That's not a guess, it's not speculation, it's a fact that can easily be verified on the BATF and USPS web sites, and has been verified by me(FFL Dealer) and by others who have posted in past threads. One word of advice, Even if you call the BATF and speak to an agent, DO NOT take his word as gospel unless he can reference you to a reg you can verify yourself. I have found ATF agents to have a terrible record for giving inaccurate answers to questions.
Many people choose to withhold the info from the carrier and ship illegal, but as the above post indicates, it leaves you empty handed without a legal leg to stand on, when something goes awry. Although it's rarely ever done, you can be prosecuted for illegaly shipping a firearm. I spoke with a district agent about the possibility of that happening, and he said it's left up to the local prosecutor, and usually is not done unless the firearm ends up being used in a crime and gets traced back to you. Something to think about when you're trying to save a couple of bucks on shipping one of your treasured shootin' irons.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Well, this was an interesting day. I went to the local FedEx office and talked to customer relations and we determined that the box indeed was delivered to the correct address. The two "computer" records were a result of two transactions at the shipping origination point. One for shipping charges, the other for insurance. Later today, I received a personal call from the head of Colt security informing me that the box had been "mixed in" with a rather large shipment and had been somehow overlooked and not checked in. My gun was in "lockup" however per their procedures. Colt was very responsive and quickly resolved the issue.

As an aside, apparently in my state (Colorado) you must declare if the contents of a shipment includes a firearm. Don't know if this is the same everywhere, but I would guess that it is. It doesn't get marked anywhere on the box or the paperwork that the driver has, but it is "known" to the shipping agent. Even though the destination is abbreviated "CMC" it doesn't take too many brain cells to figure out what that means.

Anyway, I'm happy to report that my gun has been located and that the Colt people were very helpful and responsive. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

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The Searcher
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Individual shipping via USPS is illegal - no argument. Not declaring to a common carrier that you are shipping a firearm is not illegal, but as indicated earlier, could be construed as a breach of contract and leave you without legal recourse. Common carrier policy is not law, but again could be construed as not responsibly "securing" a firearm. Waynem - glad your situation was resolved. As you can see there is a lot of confusion. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 

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thank you gentelmen for "THE GOSPEL" on shipping.you must remember to disregard logic when dealing with firearms laws. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gifshall we throw the c&r ffl into the mix to really make it interesting??? /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 

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Yes, when shipping via common carrier, one MUST declare that the package contains a firearm.

Taken from the BATFE website:

B9) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier? [Back]


A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be
used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract
carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]

Interestingly, a check of the USPS regs shows no similiar declaration is necessary when a non FFL holder mails a long gun to an FFL out of state. Example: an Alabama resident can mail his .30-30 back to Marlin in CT for repairs without telling the postal clerk that the package contains a firearm. However, the postal clerk does have the right to inspect your package to guarantee that it does not contain ammo and that the firearm is unloaded.
 

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Muley, You are quoting from the BATF site which I believe is paraphrasing the law as written. The law as written says (I am not an attorney but it is unusually clear, and I also paraphrase) that it is unlawful to deliver to a carrier a package containing a firearm for delivery to a person OTHER THAN A LICENSED DEALER OR MANUFACTURER without notice that the package contains a firearm. Of course the BATF would like you to tell no matter where it's being sent. They will always paraphrase in the direction of more gun control. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 

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If nothing gets written down, then enforcement of the contract could come down to the driver's word v. the sender's. That would put it in the realm of a "gentleman's contract," which, in Virginia, is no longer enforceable.

To identify a firearm or any other mechanical device as "parts" may be misleading, but is technically correct. Whether or not the "parts" are assembled is not addressed.
 

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Around here, UPS is the only way to ship a firearm. Since many of the FedEx people are independent contractors, delivery and processing can be a nightmare of lost packages, addresses the driver can't find (no universal map database, even w/FedEx Air in the same corporation). My experience reached its zenith when I had a 'shipment' in a FedEx warehouse 20 minutes away, for 4 days, and no one around the globe could tell me IF it'd be delivered. I even offered to drive to the warehouse and pick it up. That threw 'em for a loop!
Don
 

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[ QUOTE ]
If nothing gets written down, then enforcement of the contract could come down to the driver's word v. the sender's.

[/ QUOTE ]of course the sender would have a recipt for the shipping charges and ins. amount.i dont think that would fly before a judge here in kentucky, you cant weasel out of not delivering an insured package because the sender neglected to mention the contents.i would suspect the court was gun biased,perhaps in a large northern city? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 

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Not sure how you managed to reach that conclusion as the law as written, and the ATF web site, is quite clear. Regardless of how we would like to interpret the law to justify our own actions, Federal law absolutely requires the carrier to be notified the package contains a firearm. USPS goes as far as to require a declaration form 1508 be filled out and submitted each time you ship a handgun. I have personally confirmed the carrier notification law with three different agents in two separate BATF district offices, and it's one of the few questions I ask that ever received a consistent response. Again, it's rarely ever prosecuted, but it still leaves the shipper out on a limb when something goes awry, as the gentleman discovered when his insurance claim was denied after he falsified the shipping documents and shipped illegally. He gave the insurance company a slam dunk case to take to court. One must remember that gun laws are not devised through logic and common sense, but rather to inflict maximum inconvenience to the gun owner.
 

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I could be wrong, but this has been discussed on other fora as well. Here is a link to The Gun Control Act of 1968 through the ATF site. Read Title 18, United States Code, Chapter 44, Sec 101, SubSection 922 Unlawful Acts (e) and see what you think. Remember you're asking the BATF and remember we're talking about shipping to a licensee which includes manufacturers, not another individual. Of course, I would never recommend that anyone do anything that made them uncomfortable or might put them at risk. Caveat Emptor, pick your own poison and all that. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2005/p53004/18usc_chap44.pdf
 
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