No and No. All of my .357 chambered guns shoot over 90% 38 special ammo in them and as long as the cylinder gets cleaned, .357 ammo will easily chamber and eject with no issues. Target 38 wadcutters are extremely accurate out of any .357 chambered firearm.

 

As stated the .38 Spcl will function perfectly in a .357 revolver. The .38 load is not as "robust" so it actually causes less wear than the .357 over the long haul. I probably run 90%+ .38's in my .357 chambered revolvers for this very reason. Hope this helps.

 

No, no problem.

Someone told me that manufacturers of .357 used to need the extra length of the round to use more powder. But now they could get enough power just with mixes of powders and have the same size as a .38. But the traditional length is kept to be able to easily distinguish one from another.

- interesting, IF it's true.

 

Many years ago a few friends and I did some testing with different makes of revolvers. All .357's, we shot a large amount of .38 Special with lead bullets through the guns. After hundreds of rounds without cleaning we experienced a very slight build-up of lead in the cylinder chambers. It had little effect on loading .357's; they were noticeably tighter but seated fine and did not alter performance or prior accuracy. Once cleaned, again, no ill effects.

 

Toothless, this is what the urban legend that 38 Specials shot from a .357 cylinder is based on. Mtn. Spur is correct. There is absolutely no harm in shooting 38 Specials through .357 mag cylinders. It may require a little more effort to clean the front of the cylinder charging holes after shooting a lot of 38 Specials but they absolutely will not harm the cylinder.
I even have a local friend who won't shoot 38s from his 357 revolvers for this reason. I think he's a cluck as far as this issue is concerned, especially since he rarely shoots these revolvers.

 

The "extra" length of the .357 was never about getting more powder in, it was to differentiate between the two calibers & power levels in making it impossible (in most revolvers) to chamber the hotter magnum rounds in .38 caliber guns not constructed for the higher pressures.
Denis

 

Very true!
357 charges never had any problem fitting into 38 Special cases. I never understood where people got the idea the 38 Special case wasn't big and long enough to safely hold 357 charges.

 

Much the same story for the .44 Special vs. .44 Magnum. Elmer Keith (and others) formulated some ferociously hot loads in .44 Special. The .44 Magnum is longer mainly so that it will not chamber in older and weaker .44 Special revolvers, not because it provides greater powder capacity. As in the case of the .38/357, .44 Special ammunition can be fired in any .44 Magnum revolver without problems. In fact, I rarely shoot anything in mine (either rifle or revolver) other than .44 Special handloads.

 

Much the same story for the .44 Special vs. .44 Magnum. Elmer Keith (and others) formulated some ferociously hot loads in .44 Special. The .44 Magnum is longer mainly so that it will not chamber in older and weaker .44 Special revolvers, not because it provides greater powder capacity. As in the case of the .38/357, .44 Special ammunition can be fired in any .44 Magnum revolver without problems. In fact, I rarely shoot anything in mine (either rifle or revolver) other than .44 Special handloads.

Even Dirty Harry agreed with you!

Seriously, good example of the same concept.

 

Capstan,
The answer is no. Don't load .357 loadings in .38 special cases. You increase the gas pressure and could blow your weapon.

 

ponylover Thanks. I figured there might be more to it than just making the case bigger so it couldnt be put in a 38 spl. revolver.

Although it certainly isnt obvious that a relatively small increase in powder charge in a slightly smaller(38special) case would create such a dangerous situation in a 357 mag revolver.

 

Pony Lover's right, don't do it. BUT it can be done. You can get most popular load levels for .357 magnums into a .38 Spcl case. Firing from stout revolvers and 2 Thompson Center Contenders, we had little problems with the guns. Several hotter loads DID split the case mouths on some though. Same with the .44 Spcl. We had loaded them to popular (at the time - late '70's, early '80's) .44 mag status and they shot fine in new guns. No case splitting. But it is not a recommended good practice! I was a lot like Elmer Keith at the time; start at Max and work UP!

 

And here I thought it was just me. My husband's 686 is really fun to shoot when using the .38's but not so pleasant with the .357's. It has alot less recoil than my little DS2 and is accurate.

 

Well. there ya go.
You learn something new every day.
I have a 66 that I refuse to fire .357s in. It just ain't as much fun. I have others that are better suited to the higher performance load.
.38 special is the most shot & reloaded handgun ammo of all time.

 

"The answer is no. Don't load .357 loadings in .38 special cases. You increase the gas pressure and could blow your weapon"

And the source of that knowledge is....? I contend one could load and fire safely .357 equivalent loads in .38 Special cases in a .357 revolver, but I wouldn't try them in a .38 Special revolver. I have done it.

 

This is interesting. So you have loaded 357mag loads in 38 spl cases and shot them through a 357 mag revolver? Initially my thought was: if the reason they made the 357 mag case longer, was to prevent someone from using the 357mag loads in a 38 spl revolver,then it would seem that you could load the 38 spl cases with 357 mag loads AS LONG AS YOU put them into a 357 mag revolver. But I dont know enough about how pressure buildup of burning powder is affected by volume in the case. Im not sure how the decreased void space in 38 spl case would make pressure go up for a 357 mag loading of powder. But ponylover may have some input there. Maybe with less room in the case for the gas to expand, the preesure could increase as it is confined more??
Ill have to do some research on this now.

 

Might do some reading on the old 38-44 loads that were used in smith n frames.I could see fooling with them in a large frame revolver,but not the smaller 38s.As far as shooting them in a 357,why?

 

I wouldnt see any reason to shoot them in a 357 either. I have read where they are about the same as a 357 mag anyway. What Im wondering is whether 357 magnum loadings could be safely used in 38 special CASES. No particular reason to do so, and no particular desire to do so,but would be good to know what the( internal ballistic) reasoning is.

 

The main concern is (and was) having high pressure loads in revolvers that couldn't handle them. That's why the .357 case is longer - it won't fit into .38 Special chambers, especially those early guns that wouldn't stand the pressure.

The question is, can you load a .38 Special case to .357 pressures and velocities? The answer is yes you can, but you now may have the same problem that the longer case was made to prevent. If you load high pressure .38's, you have to observe utmost diligence that they don't get used in the wrong guns.

I have pushed 158 and 172 grain bullets to 1200-1300 fps in .38 special cases. I did this a while back to replicate early loadings in S&W Heavy Duty revolvers. No problems whatsoever. It's also a common practice to load .357-level loads in .38 cases when using heavy bullets, say 200-220 grains. This allows crimping in the proper place without having the OAL too large for a .357 case.

Buck

 

The main concern is (and was) having high pressure loads in revolvers that couldn't handle them. That's why the .357 case is longer - it won't fit into .38 Special chambers, especially those early guns that wouldn't stand the pressure.

The question is, can you load a .38 Special case to .357 pressures and velocities? The answer is yes you can, but you now may have the same problem that the longer case was made to prevent. If you load high pressure .38's, you have to observe utmost diligence that they don't get used in the wrong guns.

I have pushed 158 and 172 grain bullets to 1200-1300 fps in .38 special cases. I did this a while back to replicate early loadings in S&W Heavy Duty revolvers. No problems whatsoever. It's also a common practice to load .357-level loads in .38 cases when using heavy bullets, say 200-220 grains. This allows crimping in the proper place without having the OAL too large for a .357 case.

Buck

Just to clarify.... I'd assume that Buck always used .38 Spl load data from a reliable source to work up the hot .38 loads. As has been stated several times, the difference in case capacity between the two results in very excessive pressure using .357 load data.

PonyLover - Looking at your post #23, you hit the nail on the head. If you are flirting with the upper limit of .38 Spl, you must be extremely careful and make sure the loads are labeled to indicate that they are +P+ or so and should not be used in any but the strongest of pistols.

 

Thanks Haggis for your experience on this subject.

 

Remind me not to go shooting with you guys that press the upper limit. I once shot a hunter silhoutte match in Lufkin, Texas. I was spotting for a guy shooting a model 29 Smith. I noticed the extra recoil, smoke, and the misses. When I asked him what he was loading, he said 24 grains of 2400 behind a 240 grain bullet. That's 1.5 grains heavier than the Keith loading for .44 magnum. Yeah, the gun didn't blow up THAT time, but in my mind it's just a question of when.

In regard to shooting .357 loadings in .38 cases, I still contend that you're shooting a higher pressure round than the same loading in a .357 case. Again, you may get by with it for a while, BUT. In addition, by broadcasting the possibility of so doing, you MAY induce someone with less experience and a .38 revolver to do so. Our sport doesn't need this kind of reloading procedures. I strongly urge you to stop doing so and if you won't, don't broadcast that you are.

 

If one merely takes apart a Standard Loading .357 Cartridge, and, puts the Powder and Bullet into a .38 Special Cartridge, ( or, follows a Published Loading Table for .357 Magnum, but, instead, uses a .38 Special Cartridge case ) the smaller Capacity of the .38 Special Case then would result in an excessive Over Pressure version of the .357, and it might be enough to blow out the Cylinder Wall or even bend the Top Strap as well, or who knows...but, it would far exceed the naive anticipations of someone trying that...and could even seriously harm a .357 Magnum Revolver.

One more good reason to never fire anyone else's re-loads. ( Unless, maybe, one does so in THAT person's Gun! Lol...but, even then...)

Especially, Boxes of unknown reloads which someone's ( anyone's, one's own ) dad, grandpa, uncle or neighbor-guy or whomever left in the garage or attic or basement or den or where-ever, from Lord knows when.

And or to look very carefully at seemingly, innocent-enough looking old 'factory' boxes of Ammo.

Let alone, the possibility that someone had inadvertently got a 'Double Charge' or two, in what was already more or less a base-line 'Proof Round'.


So...be careful out there!!

 

Far as whether any Colt or S & W .38 Special made from the early 1930s on, could take the Ballistic Equivilent of .357 Magnum...I am sure they would take it okay...but, only as a once in a while thing, and, even then, it could stran or stretch something in some of them, and thus begin to throw the Revolver 'off' somewhat...which then would amount to ruining the Revolver in a way where it can not be repaired.

If one wants a .357 Magnum Revolver, it is entirely easy to just get one.

If one is poor or of modest income, one can simply be disciplined, start a 'Coffee Can', and, every night, toss all Ones and Pocket-change into it, and, before too long, with a growing row of such Coffee Cans, have enough saved up to buy a very nice used .357 Magnum Revolver of one kind or another.

If wishing for a fairly high condition, S & W 'Registered Magnum', in the original slightly tattered Box, then one would stay with it long enough to have a long Row ( possibly a very long row ) of such Coffee Cans.

So, in my opinion, if one wants .357 Magnum performance, well, just get a .357 Magnum!

That is what the .357 Magnum Revolver was made to deliver!

Don't risk ruining or stretching unto ruin, or bursting a Cylinder Wall ( or worse, if new to re-loading and liable to making beginners' mistakes ) of your trusty .38 Special Revolver.

 

What about freebore?

I will add a different point of view to the dilemma discussed here:

What about freebore?

The greater freebore resulting from using .38 special cases in a larger .357 magnum cylinder: would affect accuracy somehow?

I tend to believe that is possible in theory (at least).

So even when firing .38 spl loads in .357 Magnum revolvers maybe is better to use .357 cases so the bullet can bee seated near the front end of the cilynder.

By doing this you should be able to reduce the freebore somewhat.

What dou you think?

Thanks.-

 

I will add a different point of view to the dilemma discussed here:

What about freebore?

The greater freebore resulting from using .38 special cases in a larger .357 magnum cylinder: would affect accuracy somehow?

I tend to believe that is possible in theory (at least).

SM, that is an excellent question. I once tried to develop a ".45 Short Colt" for better loading and faster extraction. I tested a series of cartridge case lengths from less than .455 Eley through full length .45 Colt. What I found was that as long as freebore was less than the cylindrical part of the bullet (the bearing length), there was very little effect on accuracy. The 0.1" freebore of a .38 Special in a .357 chamber would seem to have a miniscule effect, something that is generally observed by many users.

When the bullet was unsupported in in the freebore, it could (and did, in most cases) yaw a bit and enter the cylinder throat at a small angle. The yawed bullet deformed in the cylinder throat which altered its rotational balance. It then went unstable after exiting the barrel, and depending on the amount of freebore, could have anything from slightly higher group size up to sideways holes in the paper and humongous groups. You started seeing this effect when the freebore was about equal to the bearing length. Sideways happened at when freebore was about 2-3X bearing length.

So, if you are going to have long freebores, use heavy bullets for the caliber, or flatnosed bullets (wadcutters) at a fixed bullet weight.

Buck

 

Depends on the firearm. Some rifles shoot better with the bullet just touching the rifling. Others do better with the bullet set back a tad. I imagine the same would be true of revolvers. I suspect the issue in revolvers is size of the chamber versus bore size, how square the chamber mouth is to forcing cone, and the angle of the forcing cone. Each of these could affect the way the bullet enters the rifling and affect the accuracy. With a revolver, the issue is multiplied by the number of chambers in the cylinder.

 

Thats all I shoot out of my Python, then clean it each time real good.

 

Years ago I read a magazine article where the writer used a 44 special charge in a 44 Russian length case. He was was amazed that he was getting near 44 Magnum velocities. He sounded as if he thought he had discovered the fountain of youth. No telling what the pressure was.

 

I HATE getting out the "ring around the chamber," that results from firing .38's in a .357. But, then I'm a little OCD. I load .357 cases with Trail Boss powder and get low end .38 velocities. It's great...fun...cheap.

 

While there is certainly nothing wrong with using .38 Special cartridges in a .357 Magnum revolver, my personal habit is to use only .357 Magnum cases in the .357 Magnum revolvers. I can handload any .38 Special target load performance in the .357 Magnum case. I mostly just enjoy keeping the two cartridges segregated. Can't really justify such separation though.

Fouled .357 Magnum chambers due to using shorter .38 Special loads will never become an issue because I clean firearms after each use. No build-up will occur.

Very limited chronograph testing seems to indicate that a .38 Special load fired through a .357 Magnum revolver will be slower when testing in a series of revolvers and a .357 Magnum is used with other .38 Special revolvers. Whether this is because of longer chamber of the .357 Magnum or because I happen to have some "slow" .357 Magnum revolvers can't be said. Manufacturing variables and of course barrel length comes in to play here. The velocity difference is too insignificant to affect utility of the load anyway.

I have a notion that .38 Special loads don't give quite the same accuracy when fired through .357 Magnum revolvers. While I seem to observe that the .38 Special revolvers render tighter groups with a given .38 Special load than a .357 Magnum revolver can give, this is awfully subjective and is limited by vagaries of my ability to shoot for group. The difference won't win or lose a paper punching match for me and won't matter for field use either.

In the end I have no justifiable reason to avoid using .38 Special cases in my .357 Magnum revolvers.

I never attempted to use .38 Special cases as a basis for building high-pressure loads for use in a .357 Magnum revolver. If someone was of a mind to do so he would need to carefully work up his loads in the .357 revolver while being mindful of the reduced case capacity of the .38 Special. Skeeter Skelton was said to load up performance .357 ammunition in .38 Special cases using 2400 powder by seating the bullets out so that the finished cartridge had the same overall length as a factory .357 Magnum cartridge. Lead semi-wadcutters were his bullet of choice and the same bullet was popularly supplied in factory .357 Magnum ammution of the time.

Since .357 Magnum cartridge cases are so commonly available there is really no need to utilize .38 Special cases for producing high-performance ammunition.

Last year I completed testing of published data for some high-performance loadings for use in .38 Special revolvers. It was accomplished as an interesting exercise and to explore the possibilities of a handloaded equivalent to the old .38-44 loading. I didn't choose to take 2400 powder to the level that Haggis did in his testing since I was mostly testing with K-Frame Smith & Wesson revolvers. I stopped at the 11.5 grain/2400 maximum published in several older editions of the Lyman manual. Post No. 17 details these performance load tests.
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