[what would you say]

obviously not a Colt, but since the Scout had an aluminium frame, I thought someone might have some knowledge on this issue where there are small chips and pings in the aluminium frame around the firing pin of this Ruger Single Six Lightweight .

 

[Buckspen]

I've never seen that kind of damage to a rimfire revolver. I have seen something similar in centerfire revolvers where leakage of hot gas occurred around the primer. I had some Federal primers one time that leaked and caused erosion to the breech face in a Freedom Arms revolver. I was loading them pretty hot for IHMSA silhouette shooting in those days.
I'm not familiar with the Ruger Single Six models. Is this a "convertible" which can fire the .22 LR and .22 Magnum cartridges?

- - - -Buckspen

 

[dfariswheel]

I've never seen anything like that on a rim fire revolver.

You have bad cylinder ratchet impact peening on the frame ratchet seat. This is something you typically only see on center fire guns that were shot with stupid over-load hot ammo and/or a gun with bad cylinder end shake.

The marks around the firing pin bushing are usually a symptom of primer gas leakage, again in over-loaded ammo.
The damage below the bushing I can't even guess at.

I just have no idea what could cause this kind of serious damage in a rim fire unless this was manufactured as a .22LR-only gun and someone installed a .22 Magnum cylinder.
I would wonder how safe this gun is to fire.
You might contact Ruger and send this picture. It's possible they can install a new frame.

 

[mhb]

That is the worst case...

of mechanical battering of the frame I've ever seen in a rimfire revolver. It was caused by many thousands of rounds of shooting, with the setback of the cylinder ratchet in recoil impacting the frame until it is deformed to the extent seen.
The damage around the firing pin/recoil shield is probably due to repeated firing of ammunition which burst at the rim, causing gas cutting - it is not common with good rimfire ammunition, but not rare, either, especially with old ammunition. Usually, the person experiencing such case head failures will not use more of the ammunition causing the problem, but whoever had this revolver apparently shot a good many rounds of it.
Taken altogether, the poor thing has had the snot shot out of it.

Later: It would be interesting to see a photo of the breech-end of the barrel showing the forcing cone and surrounding area of the frame.


mhb - Mike

 

[ussmanlovede36]

I have nothing too add to what the others have said. could the gun have been converted to another caliber then changed back at a later date? I think ruger makes the single six in 32 magnum. that damage does not look like it was caused by the 22lr.

 

[what would you say]

the single six "Tri-color" was made from 1956-1959 and has an aluminium cylinder with steel sleeves I imagine, aluminium frame and that circle around the firing pin is steel, but the rest is aluminium. I'm guessing someone firing some sort of super velocity 22 rounds akin to 22 magnum that caused that ratchet impact. since its aluminium, I'm thinking it shows impact impression a little easier than a steel frame would, but needless to say, I'm disaapointed with it. The little steel circle around the firing pin has some pings in it, but the aluminium frame just under it has some chips into it.
The amazing thing is the action and timing is outstanding. This specific model gun is very collectible as they made only about 12,000 total and I believe there is about 3 variants of that number. minus that frame damage, this gun appears to be bringing $750 to $1K with normal wear of a gun this age as is, and much much more in better condition with a box. I cant find an example of the box currently for sale, but a photo of one is posted in the Lounge section under my Thread on this gun. They only made these Lightweight "tri-color" aluminium frames in 22LR with a 4 5/8 inch barrel. So no extra cylinder and appears to be original parts. I think somone just shot some real hot ammo. I may take some advice on this one and call Ruger and send photo. I believe their policy is they will have to change out the flatgate and upgrade to the transfer bar, and they send back the changed parts. however, if they can't fix this frame and have to go with a steel frame, I would say it would ruin any collectibility it has and just totally not worth that.

 

[Radicalrod]

Well usually the coating on the cylinder will chip with extended use.....

The photos in your other thread show very minimal use/abuse.....something doesn't add up....

Maybe someone replaced the firing pin and damaged the surrounding area when they used a little too much enthusiasm .....

Yes finding a Light Weight box can be a problem....even more of a problem when you find one and see what they want for one....RR.

PS I sincerely doubt that RUGER will work on your gun.....they will not pull a barrel from any of their aluminum framed guns....

 

[Calibre 38]

IMHO; What I see is excessive front to back cylinder play. When firing, the cylinder recoils back to the faceplate and leaves those marks...Jim

 

[what would you say]

I haven't heard back from Ruger yet, but based on what RadicalRod had to add,( and with his collection I'd say he might know two things about Ruger at least, ) I'm sort of stuck with a wall hanger / collector piece unless I dare shoot it as is... and I've got a shooter somewhere already. The gun's parts are worth a dime and a penny though and maybe slightly more.

 

[what would you say]

I don't know how well Ruger cylinders swap between guns, but just wondering, if a previous owner/user had put a 22 magnum cylinder in this gun for a while, I'm wondering it doing that would result in this sort of damage.

 

[dfariswheel]

Revolver cylinders have to be fitted to the frame. Single action cylinders are easier than double actions, but you still have to fit and adjust for head space, cylinder end shake, timing on all chambers, and alignment on all chambers.

It's possible someone just dropped in a used cylinder that just didn't fit the frame, OR it's possible some fool installed a cylinder from a totally different brand of revolver.

If a cylinder doesn't fit properly it can have end shake, which is when the cylinder is free to move back and forth in the frame.
If this is bad enough, the cylinder becomes in effect an impact hammer slamming back and forth in the frame, and this literally hammers the frame to death.
One prime indication of a cylinder with end shake and/or a gun shot with way over hot loads is cylinder ratchet impact peening of the frame. This leaves the ratchet shaped dents you see on your gun.

My best guess: Possibly someone installed a badly mis-fitting .22 Magnum cylinder in a gun made for .22LR then shot the snot out of it, paying no attention to the damage they were doing.

WHAT happened we'll probably never know, but the frame is DOA.

 

[what would you say]

I have a 1971 single six convertible with both cylinders. The magnum cylinder did not drop in the Lightweight, but, like the Colt peacemaker 22, the front bushing area of the cylinder can be shortened to make it fit. The barrel/ forcing cone of the Lightwieght and the cylinder don't show any damage at all. I will measure the end shake just out of curiosity to see what it is now. I suppose I should get in touch with the seller. That damage in the photo looks huge, like how could I miss that... But it was easily camouflaged by 22 powder residue. I have to use a magnifying glass to see the ping damage like it shows up in the photo. Thanks for the advice and attention on this one.

 

[what would you say]

I did receive a return call from Ruger today and the tech support viewed the inner frame photo and we talked options with Ruger. As we know, they cannot repair/replace the frame. They would assuredly have to deem this gun unsafe/un repairable and dispose of it. In turn they would send me a new gun at a significant discount ..rough estimate of 55% of original cost. I did not think to ask if it had to be a similar gun. No matter, with the money already spent on the first gun, that doesn't seem a wise monetary decision. Ruger did comment on how nice the gun looked otherwise, so I really don't think I want to send it to Ruger with that outcome. I think I would rather take the loss - lesson learned - and smile at Randy at the next local gun show... See if he is interested in a Ruger lightweight that looks to be in good shape... Mostly

 

[ColtStar]

Revolver cylinders have to be fitted to the frame. Single action cylinders are easier than double actions, but you still have to fit and adjust for head space, cylinder end shake, timing on all chambers, and alignment on all chambers.

It's possible someone just dropped in a used cylinder that just didn't fit the frame, OR it's possible some fool installed a cylinder from a totally different brand of revolver.

If a cylinder doesn't fit properly it can have end shake, which is when the cylinder is free to move back and forth in the frame.
If this is bad enough, the cylinder becomes in effect an impact hammer slamming back and forth in the frame, and this literally hammers the frame to death.
One prime indication of a cylinder with end shake and/or a gun shot with way over hot loads is cylinder ratchet impact peening of the frame. This leaves the ratchet shaped dents you see on your gun.

My best guess: Possibly someone installed a badly mis-fitting .22 Magnum cylinder in a gun made for .22LR then shot the snot out of it, paying no attention to the damage they were doing.

WHAT happened we'll probably never know, but the frame is DOA.

Since the alloy frame was designed for a mild cartridge, ie, 22 rimfire, wouldn't it be possible to disassemble the gun, use a TIG outfit to add metal where needed, then machine the frame to properly fit & align the cylinder?

Just a thought.

 

[dfariswheel]

Since the alloy frame was designed for a mild cartridge, ie, 22 rimfire, wouldn't it be possible to disassemble the gun, use a TIG outfit to add metal where needed, then machine the frame to properly fit & align the cylinder?

Just a thought.

This is one of those things that are at least in the realm of "possible" but are really not likely.
Welding an aluminum pistol frame is something you'd need a top end master pistolsmith/welder who would be willing to take it on, and you might not find one who would.

If you did find one his first question would be, "So, just HOW much money do you have"?

 

[what would you say]

Since the alloy frame was designed for a mild cartridge, ie, 22 rimfire, wouldn't it be possible to disassemble the gun, use a TIG outfit to add metal where needed, then machine the frame to properly fit & align the cylinder?

Just a thought.

I am going to try to get it repaired. To come out monetarily would mean to sell the gun in parts, but then its one less collectible gun and I'd rather keep it. Even though I wouldn't likely shoot it, I don't like having a gun that won't shoot and I wont sell a gun to someone that isn't safe to shoot. So I'm gonna check into getting it repaired, because its collectible and I'm in it only about 40% or less of what a similiar one would cost (without the frame issue). I've checked the B/C gap and its .006 inch, but the end shake is too much, obviously because of the ratchet marks. Because its only a 22LR, I think it can be repaired.. But like Dfaris said, its not going to be cheap. I'm going to have to give it Colt effort even for a Ruger .. since it is from 1957.

 

[ralph7]

I don't know how well Ruger cylinders swap between guns, but just wondering, if a previous owner/user had put a 22 magnum cylinder in this gun for a while, I'm wondering it doing that would result in this sort of damage.

I'd bet that is exactly what happened.
The slightly larger magnum bullet being squeezed down the bore along with the magnum's extra pressure level might be just the ticket for the damage observed. Seems like endshake would have to be pretty bad on this one.

 

[dfariswheel]

Since the alloy frame was designed for a mild cartridge, ie, 22 rimfire, wouldn't it be possible to disassemble the gun, use a TIG outfit to add metal where needed, then machine the frame to properly fit & align the cylinder?

Just a thought.

I am going to try to get it repaired. To come out monetarily would mean to sell the gun in parts, but then its one less collectible gun and I'd rather keep it. Even though I wouldn't likely shoot it, I don't like having a gun that won't shoot and I wont sell a gun to someone that isn't safe to shoot. So I'm gonna check into getting it repaired, because its collectible and I'm in it only about 40% or less of what a similiar one would cost (without the frame issue). I've checked the B/C gap and its .006 inch, but the end shake is too much, obviously because of the ratchet marks. Because its only a 22LR, I think it can be repaired.. But like Dfaris said, its not going to be cheap. I'm going to have to give it Colt effort even for a Ruger .. since it is from 1957.

If you're going to take a shot at it, price be damned, don't even bother looking for any local gunsmith and DO NOT take it to ANY welder. Even the best welders are not gunsmiths and don't understand all the ramifications of gun work.

You need to start talking to the top Masters. If they won't take it on, ask them who they'd recommend. They know who the top people are and can usually give you leads.

A few to start with:
Cylinder & Slide Shop.
Frank Glenn.

And the list on The American Pistolsmith Guild. If you've been around guns much you'll recognize a lot of these names. Click on a name and it'll give you some info.

The American Pistolsmiths Guild

 

[JudgeColt]

I would not be afraid to shoot the gun, but why? Its value is as a collectible, not as a shooter. Shoot a steel Single Six if you want a Ruger shooter.

 

[Radicalrod]

Well I agree with JudgeColt....RR