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i need some opinons on this gun smoothbore 45 c serial 128863 ,colt letter says bleu, but gun is nickel,unfired in box but not original to gun,bronze medallion included, most important is the gun original
 

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The gun was re-nickled over the blue, evidenced by surface pits under the nickle. The smooth bores were usually used by Wild West performers, but not exclusively. It's a very nice specimen, but I don't think it's in it's original configuration.:rolleyes: I suspect it hasn't been fired since it was refinished.
 

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If its classed "antique" the detachable butt-stock is ATF compliant correct, similar to Mauser broomhandle?

Have fun and be safe.
Nightshade2x
 

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I think DC is referring to a smoothbore, by defination, having no lands, & grooves, is technically a shotgun. Any barrel length under 18" would need ATF clearance paperwork.
 

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Ditto on what has been said about the finish being redone.

I would also compare the serial number size and shape and placement of some other single actions in the serial range also. It's far too easy to get the serial number of a rare configuration and then make a gun with that serial number on it.

I've seen 2 factory smoothbores up close and personal...one of them was a blue and case 7-1/2" 45 shipped in 1902 and the other was a nickle 7-1/2" 45 shipped in the late teens to an artist who lived on the 101 ranch in Oklahoma....we did some research and figured out the painter's wife was in the 101 wild west show back in the day.
 

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Well as far as the smoothbore part, I believe the author of the post is in Belgium. So that might not be a probablem for him with the ATF. It might have been redone for a Wild West Show as Kid stated. Probably bored and renickled. Not in original condition, but a nice looking and interesting piece. If you could find a conection to a famous Wild West performer that would be great!!
 

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Well as far as the smoothbore part, I believe the author of the post is in Belgium. So that might not be a probablem for him with the ATF. It might have been redone for a Wild West Show as Kid stated. Probably bored and renickled. Not in original condition, but a nice looking and interesting piece. If you could find a conection to a famous Wild West performer that would be great!!
While European laws are usually stricter than the US, there occasional oddities. For example, in England, at least some years ago, silencers were perfectly legal- mustn't disturb the neighbors when dispatching that rabbit in the garden patch, don'cha know.
 

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Can anyone read the markings on the trigger guard? It can't be the proof markings as this gun dates before that (I think).
 

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As explained to me by a gunsmith of 35 years when I was looking at and may still turn a Ruger Vaquero 44 Magnum into a paradox was that there is no ruling on how deep or what twist as well as what length the rifling in a handgun must be. If one wanted 1" of straight rifling it would be legal and not need any special Federal permit to build or obtain. Again this is just repeating from another mouth but one I trust. What a treat to take ownership of such a prize.
 

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To whom or where according to the letter was the gun shipped?
 

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i need some opinons on this gun smoothbore 45 c serial 128863 ,colt letter says bleu, but gun is nickel,unfired in box but not original to gun,bronze medallion included, most important is the gun original
Sir, Is your name Ives? Or, did you purchase this gun from him?
 

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This would be on the C&R list and not regulated by NFA rules. I don't have the list in front of me but I think it might list SAA smoothbores by name.
 

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Can anyone read the markings on the trigger guard? It can't be the proof markings as this gun dates before that (I think).
I can't blow it up enough to read it but it probably says "45 CAL." (which it should read in this serial range).

It's serial numbered just a few thousand numbers before they started roll marking the barrel "45 Colt".

It would be interesting to know if you took the grips off, if the triggerguard had been drilled for the stock pin (for what should have been the standard eagle hard rubber grips) or if the one piece walnut grips or other one piece were special ordered from the factory.
 

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Check the diameter of the bore. If it is land diameter, it is likely an original smoothbore. If it is groove diameter, it has likely been bored out.
 

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From a posting on another forum the Factory letter shows:
Caliber as "45 c"
Barrel Length as "Not Listed"
Finish as "Blue"
Type of Stocks as "Not Listed"
Shipped to as "Colt's Patent Firearms Company, London Agency"
Address as "14 Pall Mall, London England"
Date of Shipment as "10 October 1889"
Number of guns of same type in shipment as "6"
 

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While European laws are usually stricter than the US, there occasional oddities. For example, in England, at least some years ago, silencers were perfectly legal- mustn't disturb the neighbors when dispatching that rabbit in the garden patch, don'cha know.
That is still correct.
Most serious rabbit shooters use sub sonic .22 rimfire through a silencer.
The silencer must be entered on their firearm certificates unless used for a .22 air rifle...... guess what?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
smoothbore colt letter

iam not subjected to any U.S gunlaw,i am situated 100 miles of the bulge,or the city of BASTONGE .all first generation saa are free for sale in my country 375 mag,and 38spec must be licensed, 45 auto russian contract , 38 rimless colts ,swiss lugers ,C-96,and many other guns
this is also the reason why many saa revolvers are coming to europ now
There is too many doubt about this gun ,the gun was on auction at julia's
estimated value 20.000-25.000$ and i payed 22.000$ i am shure i will get a refund on this gun.I had contact today with a known gun appraiser
he had no intrest,because of the refinish
thanks for al the opinions
 
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