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Jeez Louise. Is nothing un-fakeable these days?? Fake guns are bad enough. I had heard of fake box labels. Now someone is making fake (or "reproduction" as the seller prefers to put it) boxes and selling them on (where else?) Ebay. See the link to item 130020159137:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Colt-45-Auto-or-4-Ba...1QQcmdZViewItem

A sad development for Colt collectors, in my view.

Charlie Flick
 

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I'm no lawyer, but that sure looks like trademark infringement to me. I do know you just can't go around slapping other folks' logos on your stuff and then sell it without the trademark owner's permission. Colt's attorneys might be interested in this.
 

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Re: Something Else to Worry About: Fake Colt Boxe

This guy makes a killing off of ebay. Look at the rest of the items he sells. He sells repro boxes for other colt automatics such as the model 1903 and 1908s. One must think that some bidders dont realize they are repros until it is too late............
 

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Hi Charlie,

That is interesting to know! I knew there were some fake Army ordnance boxes that have been circulating for years. That guy in IL has been making them for about 25 years...

One person asked about trademark violations... I believe that Colt's TM is now in the public domain because they failed to challenge it years back... That's why you see it being used by many collectors in their "avatar"... Also for those who are model railroaders too, Union Pacific recently sued Lionel for TM violation. Lionel lost and now has to pay royalties on each car and locomotive that they sell with UP markings... UP is vigorously pursuing TM violations to keep up the TM rights... Interesting case! Bob Best
 

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The fake boxes have been around for several years. I haven't seen this particular batch face to face, but the one in the picture seems to be much better quality than the others I've seen. A seller called "pawn" something or other was selling two piece government model size boxes on one of the auction sites back in the 90's. I bit on the first batch and took a dozen, but returned them the same day they arrived. They were poor reproductions and not even the correct type of cardboard.

Dant....Do you remember a bunch of these type Colt boxes that passed through the OGCA show a few years ago that looked original? I was never sure if they were original or fakes, but they looked darn good. One guy brought a couple dozen to each show for a few months, and then they just disappeared. Can't recall the members name, but he was a medium size, dark haired, younger guy....Helluva lot younger than us anyway.... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

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No, nothing is "un-fakeable" these days. I bought a WWII Commando Instruction/Parts list and a Pre-War Service Ace pamphlet on eBay from dbcolts (David Buehn) and both are reprints, but not represented as such.

The Commando piece is a very good reprint, and, at first, I did not realize it was a reprint. I thought the paper looked too white to be 60+ years old, so I compared it carefully to a known original. It is almost perfect, except that the very light shadow background behind the exploded view is missing. That same seller has the same type of Commando item up again right now, and I will bet it is also fake.

While the Commando piece is very good, the Service Ace pamphlet is very poor. The pictures are "muddy" with abnormal contrast and much lost detail. The pamphlet had a few oil stains and some soil, either as the result of being used with a gun for display, or from being "aged."

When I raised these issues to Mr. Buehn, the only response was "Just return them for a refund." I will do that, but I wonder how many people will buy these reprints and, with no originals with which to compare them, will think they are originals. Does Mr. Buehn have a reputation for this kind of stuff?

There was recently a "mint" 1920s vintage Thompson submachine catalog up for sale on eBay that I am sure was a high quality reprint, since I have one just like it that I bought from Auto-Ordnance in the 1970s. If one looks closely at the pictures, one can see the detail lost in the dark areas that surely was not lost in the originals. (I have a lot of catalogs from that era, and the line art is very detailed, and the pictures have very fine gradients of gray showing great detail in the black and white photos.) I contacted the seller, who claimed to have gotten it from a Thompson collector's estate, and was therefore sure it was an original. In looking at the listing, I am sure that the pictures of the catalog pages shown exhibited the lost detail I mentioned. It sold for $300 or so as I recall. Ouch!

Buyer beware!
 

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i dont know d/b`s reputation but have noticed small incorrect items on guns listed by him on guns america.i cant remember all but one example was incorrect stocks another was an e/rod head. no mention was made of them in his ad. perhaps he didnt know but if i know he should too!!
 

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Many 'repo' boxes of Colt have been around for years and as said they were never "challenged " in court and the ones are NOT marked with a 'copyright' logo near or attached to the Colt logo. This keeps the 'reputable ' printers such as 'Kinkos' etc from doing this against copyright laws. Yes, I know one can ALWAYS find a way around getting ANYTHING printed.
A few years back the wood grain boxes were hitting the market and now a friend of mine has been having the older boxes 'repo'd' out east somewhere and he sells them "AS repos" , NO doubt as to "How" he is marketing them. Trouble is , others get them and 'doctor' the product, such as what happens "out west" on the coast.....long story , but stop by the table and I will be glad to tell you.
Guys like Larry Wilson and Richard Ellis who like to "play games" with gun ethics, have just been "getting caught" and are paying the price.

But with enough of the "correct" goodies, ANYONE can make a cardboard box, the material is ALL out there. It's "HOW" you represent it and who you try and "screw". That's "fraud".
I have had and still have some of these 'repos' and once in a while will get a call for them, but I do not and will not, sell these on the 'internet' for my own reasons.
The guy here in Ohio who was having the two piece , wood grained boxes made up , passed away over a year ago.
The 'newer' copies of the "Old boxes" and all the printed paper to go with them , I see him at the gun shows, in fact talked with him yesterday.

Yes, the big prices of collectibles can and will 'corrupt'..... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 

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Thanks for the heads-up,Charlie-your information & advice are always accurate & appreciated.I collect vintage quality gun leather & I used to think I didn't have to worry too much about fakes-until I bought one.The lesson wasn't too expensive & it was a good one-I'm more aware of the sometimes subtle differences & I spend more time & effort inspecting both holsters & photographs.As Judge Colt indicated,careful inspection & comparison to known correct examples will usually reveal the "reproduction" for what it is.There are known problem dealers,such as the west coast character cited above,who are to be avoided-I know of one "collector" in the southeast who routinely sells fake Heiser,A.H. Hardy & S.D. Myres rigs.As mentioned,the real problems start after the repro has been sold as a repro & subsequent owners "forget" or are duped themselves.
Regards,
John Witty
 

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David Buehn\'s Reputation

[ QUOTE ]
When I raised these issues to Mr. Buehn, the only response was "Just return them for a refund." I will do that, but I wonder how many people will buy these reprints and, with no originals with which to compare them, will think they are originals. Does Mr. Buehn have a reputation for this kind of stuff?

[/ QUOTE ]Look it up: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q="david+buehn"+&btnG=Search
 
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